日本語を話しますか。

[Easy_Target 0]

Visit Akihabara

[JiN 0]

umm akihabara is in Tokyo...she is going to be in Okinawa. that's like telling someone going to miami to visit Times Square

 

greenkittie: sounds like you are really motivated! people just starting out and struggling to learn Japanese often ask me for some advice. it's a common misconception to think that language acquisition has to do anything with intelligence. intelligence only determines the speed at which a person learns, but the absolute most important part of learning any language is a person's MOTIVATION! if you are genuine in your desire to learn Japanese, it will definitely happen

 

there were 3 key moments in my japanese journey where i was so frustrated to the point where i wanted to literally tear my hair out and give up altogether the only thing that got me through it was my passion for the language and culture. anyway, if you ever need nihongo help at all, i love to help people out. it looks like everyone around here gave up on learning Japanese it seems there are always many that say they want to learn Japanese, but few that follow through on it...

[Easy_Target 0]

Well she DID say she was staying for two years. That's plenty of time to go visit Akihabara.

[GreenKittieKat 0]

Jin: It seems my husband is getting orders for August so I might be in Oki by September!

 

So i think for now i will stick to basics and try and pick up some there. I know its a different kind of japanese.

 

Are there any differences you can pin point?

[JiN 0]

Well she DID say she was staying for two years. That's plenty of time to go visit Akihabara.

lol very true i didn't have that information when i made the post

 

greenkittie: i went to Naha once (capital of okinawa) and the Ryuukyuu people have their own dialect. i was only there for a week so i wasn't able to pick any up, but the school system there uses 標準語 ('hyoujun-go' meaning 'standard language') so if you speak that everyone definitely understands. so it's better applying effort to learning that since everyone all around japan uses that as the universal dialect.

[electronic_heartbeat 0]

That's the same with all languages. o-O

 

Plus, you're also misunderstanding what I mean.

 

Basics are easy(to learn), easier than most languages, IMO. It's the remembering of it that's harder because japanese is a "loose language" in that there's considerably more leeway in how you can structure the sentence compared to say english.

 

sorry i have to agree. i took 4 years of japanese in high school and sorry i'm not as hardcore learning political terms or whatnot, but i do agree japanese is really really easy to pick up at least comparing to chinese and english. i grew up going to chinese school, and i still can't read all the words in the newspapers. forget that it's b/c i can't memorize millions of chinese characters off the top of my head, grammatically chinese is so loose (i actualy would disagree that japanese is loose, rather there is a methodical grammatical approach to syntax that is absolutely impossible with chinese or english), and chinese has so many levels of nuance. japanese isnt as nuanced, since so much of it is based on euphemism and implication (though it's more contextual of course, nuance in that sort of way)

 

maybe economic terms or whatnot do get really complicated, b/c i think 4 years worth of japanese (2-4 semesters in college) is incredibly easy. but if you're talking about higher level say, chinese, or english, on the same level i'm assuming japanese is still a lot easier to understand. even japanese slang from anime or manga is easy to pick up. imo the japanese vocabulary is pretty limited compared to english or chinese. anything they add is gairaigo which is basically english.

 

i didn't see why saying japanese is relatively easy (because i definitely think it is) merits an affront. i mean, even for someone who doesn't know any japanese at all, do you think it'd be eaiser for an english speaker to learn japanese terms or chinese terms? even the pronunciation itself, the very shallowest aspect of the language, is so much easier to even pronounce than chinese.

 

 

 

[JiN 0]

wow, i couldn't disagree more and i'm at a loss for words to even know where to begin. first off, most of the things you said were already mentioned by Easy Target which i either refuted with evidence or agreed with after he made his arguments more specific. perhaps you should read what has already been said to find the obvious correlation between peoples' experience with and opinions on the japanese language. you'll find many beginner-level japanese learners find the language simple and ALL advanced-learners humble themselves before its infinite complexity (including japanese natives!).

 

secondly, you contradict yourself several times throughout your own argument which is already fundamentally weak. i strongly disagree that japanese is easier than chinese. my opinion means shit however if i don't give some credentials to back it up i'm an amateur linguist able to speak 5 languages fluently and studied several more in-depth. out of all that i studied, the 4 Asian languages i am familiar with are: Japanese, Mandarin, Korean, and Tagalog. i would argue that Japanese is by FAR the most nuanced language i've ever come across, and that even Korean has more nuance than Mandarin. With this background i'll address each of your claims individually:

 

1. What makes you think that because you aren't able to read a chinese newspaper that you somehow have the ability to read a japanese newspaper?! Japanese is a FAR more literary language than chinese (the world's first novel was Japanese ) and therefore much more difficult to become literate in. To become officially literate in Japanese only requires knowledge of 2000 kanji whereas in Chinese one has to know around 5500. On the surface an outsider might say, "well in chinese you have to know more characters, therefore it's harder!" Saying this however means one does not understand the basic nuance of written Japanese. Though there are more written characters in Chinese each one is pronounced ONE way (in some cases consonants are hardened/softened but it is far from counter-intuitive), while in Japanese each character has SEVERAL pronunciations ranging anywhere from FOUR to TEN different pronunciations! So if you want to get technical about it, learning all readings of each Kanji is the equivalent of learning 8000+ characters (and that's only the BASIC kanji)!!

 

2.

japanese isnt as nuanced, since so much of it is based on euphemism and implication (though it's more contextual of course, nuance in that sort of way)

you are outright contradicting yourself here. firstly, your entire argument revolves around comparing the difficulty of japanese to chinese. if you are using chinese as your benchmark for linguistics you have some AMAZINGLY high standards! i completely agree that chinese is an extremely difficult language to learn especially compared to other languages...but compared to japanese it's a walk in the park. in even colloquial japanese they are so bold as to omit entire pronouns, plurals, direct objects, tense phrases and sometimes predicates! one has to constantly pay attention to the context because almost everything in japanese is implied by the speaker.

 

3. As i said to Easy Target before i fully agree that low level japanese is easy simply based on the accessibility of Japanese phonetics. it is by far one of the most phonetic languages on the planet, and fully utilizes vowel sounds. in this way it is very easy to learn the basics, but once you get up to even the intermediate level you quickly begin to see the underlying complexities of the language through speaking, listening, reading, and writing. at the advanced level japanese words and phrases begin to get really long and convoluded. sometimes adjectives take on the role of verbs, and verb endings are extremely nuanced based on tense. for example, "tanoshikatta" = "i had fun", whereas "tanoshikattachireteba" = "i thought i would not, yet i did have fun"

 

4. in regards to pronunciation japanese and chinese are polar opposites in the timing of their obstacles. with chinese before one even begins to learn any word an entire lesson of proper pronunciation needs to be mastered. this first lesson takes YEARS to master, even for native chinese speakers. due to the vast amount of homonyms in chinese, pronunciation is the foundation to the entire language. HOWEVER, you are overlooking one major detail. the majority of chinese words are made up of either SINGLE syllables or combinations of single syllables. this makes the language phenomenally concise! there is a relatively limited amount of possible sounds that can be created and therefore thoughts are VERY short. japanese is completely opposite. the language is entirely phonetic and therefore very easy to pronounce every syllable. however japanese is FAR from concise. as with the example before some common words have up to 10 syllables! that's the equivalent of almost two average chinese sentences. japanese thoughts are loomed together like a vastly interwoven tapestry, and sometimes a single sentence can span 2 pages in a typical japanese book!

 

 

i think i have written entirely too much in response to your post, but hearing such simple-minded phrases as "japanese is easy" makes me extremely emotional. it's understandable that a beginner may think that when they are in that early phonetic stage...i certainly thought so as well. but anyone up to even the intermediate stage of japanese realizes how complex the language really is and would call it anything but "easy". I haven't even mentioned some more complex nuances such as Furigana and basic Sentence Order (subject-object-VERB!!). because of things like this even Japanese natives have trouble with the language. The worst culprit of all to exemplify this is an entire sub-language within japanese called "keigo", meaning "polite language" that one has to learn when conversing in the business world. in Keigo there are 4 levels of humility EACH with different verb, noun, and adjective conjugations!!! for example the word "to write":

 

Plain: 書ã 'kaku'

Honorable: 書ã‹ã‚Œã‚‹ 'kakareru'

Humble: ãŠæ›¸ãã«ãªã‚‹ 'okaki ni naru'

Informal: 書ã„ã¦ã‚‹ 'kaiteru'

Causal-Passive: 書ã‹ã›ã‚‰ã‚Œã‚‹ 'kakaserareru'

 

And these are only a few of MANY examples of the difficulty in learning Japanese. Chinese doesn't hold a candle to it, and that's coming from a person who GREATLY respects the many chinese dialects. No offense, but if anyone says Japanese is easy they really don't know shit about it...and if they don't respect it they certainly will never learn it

[electronic_heartbeat 0]

since you're obviously the expert, i'm gonna take your word for it, but i still stand by at least one point, that since this thread isn't here to prove anyone's expertise, and easy target's and my opinions were just opinions, which is what threads are here for as opposed not a life or death hardcore linguistics issue, what we said certainly don't merit personal attacks

 

i'm sorry we offended you so much as to warrant such replies from you

[GreenKittieKat 0]

We are finally in Okinawa.We opted for Military Housing only because it's so humid here and the military not only provides a washer and dryer [which from previous experience is a MUST when you own a dog.]

 

but they also cover all your major bills [like AC!!]

 

I'm not too bummed about living on base.As I still get to interact with my fair share of Japanese people [especially since most of them work on base]

 

We haven't had a chance to see much yet.but we are looking forward to doing it sometime soon.

 

I was really disappointed to discover that everyone speaks English.but I have countered it by shopping in smaller Japanese owned stores or by just responding in Japanese.Which tends to shock people.

 

I love it here.Especially driving.

[Easy_Target 0]

I'm guessing you like to mess with other drivers by driving on the right?

[GreenKittieKat 0]

Im not supposed to drive on the right?

 

I actually was really nervous getting my license and getting behind the wheel of my car without my husband.I guess I figured if I die at least I won't be crossing over alone.

 

The Driving Improvement Course [required for anyone under 25] Instructor did a wonderful Job in filling my head with worst case scenarios.

 

I feared driving in the rain, I feared driving too closely to people [to the point that I had people cutting me off ALL THE TIME], I feared driving alone, and I always second guessed myself when figuring out what direction I was supposed to go in.

 

Not to mention my keen sense of direction was completely off here.I got lost going to the Store all the time!

 

Plus my husband was restricted to on Base driving only for a month while I had off base permission.Unfortunately for us our mail box is on a different base than where we live.

 

After being too terrified to even touch my car, yet having to drive it to check our mailbox [which was always empty or full of bills] not to mention my husband going back to work I finally just subjected myself to being lost,killed, or worse actually being ok.

 

Now I drive all over the place-and I am happy to report that my Little Toyota Duet fills up with $15.00 and I only have to fill it twice a month

 

[Pun 0]

日本語ãŒã‚ã‹ã‚Šã¾ã›ã‚“　(;ﾟдﾟ)

[Syphonkiller 7]

I know I have no right since I only know and speak two languages but.... Where has this conversatoin gone to... what ever happend to further learning the language o.O"?

 

 

 

Has everyone forgotten the point of this thread?

[GreenKittieKat 0]

 

^ What is your point.[What is it with all these people just entering a thread and acting like they know what is even going on.]

 

I am currently living in Japan.I am simply sharing my experience with living in a foreign country.I don't see how that is a problem.Not to mention what I am coming to figure out -language wise.

 

From what I recall that was the whole point of this thread.Practicing and learning about the Japanese Language and Culture.For those of us who are either New and Just Starting or for those with more experience.

 

So I apologize for being rude but what exactly was your point and who gives you the right to question our intentions in this thread? We know what the thread is about.So Please go back to the Sand Box and share your opinion with someone who cares.

 

On Another Note: I realize the Sand Box is now closed.So this could be the beginning of more of these kind of posts.With people who are so used to posting something meaningless in the sandbox and getting their precious points.

 

[Pun 0]

ã‚“?

[GreenKittieKat 0]

it is what?

[Pun 0]

it is what?

 

ã‚“ is more like saying "huh?" or "hmm?"

 

I never took lessons or anything. I used to play a Japanese online game so I thought I'd practice some common courtesy and make an effort to learn some of the language.

Unfortunately, I never got passed most of the basics along with nearly every ingame command.

 

The next line is more like a test to see if I remember some basic stuff. Anyone care to elaborate on any mistakes?

--

 

あなた輪英語おはなしますか？

[GreenKittieKat 0]

Yea most of us posting aside from Jin are just starting out as well.So You got most of us beat.

[JiN 0]

wow electronic_heartbeat you responded to my post with the quickness in this thread all the posts seem to be spread out by MONTHS so i didn't expect a response for quite some time. i realize there are a ton of people who would disagree with me on which language is harder, but anyone that has at least an intermediate level of knowledge on both chinese AND japanese tend to agree with me. here's a link i found the other day actually by someone who agrees with my opinion (though not as in-depth as i was):

 

http://chinese-school.netfirms.com/Chinese...darin-Easy.html

 

 

ã‚ãªãŸè¼ª

LOL that was funny "輪" means "wheel". here's a perfect example of why japanese is the more difficult language due to its vast irregularities. although the common article of speech is pronounced "wa" it is spelled "ã¯" (ha). so when typing into an english-based keyboard you should type "anata ha..."

[Pun 0]

http://chinese-school.netfirms.com/Chinese...darin-Easy.html

LOL that was funny "輪" means "wheel". here's a perfect example of why japanese is the more difficult language due to its vast irregularities. although the common article of speech is pronounced "wa" it is spelled "ã¯" (ha). so when typing into an english-based keyboard you should type "anata ha..."

 

Damn, I knew something looked a little wrong.

--

Like I said before though, I only know a little bit of Japanese because of an online game I used to play.

 

ã‚ãªãŸã¯è‹±èªžãŠã¯ãªã—ã¾ã™ã‹? Is that right?

 

My favorite thing was always the cool faces I'd see people make with the language. (￣▽￣ is my absolute favorite.

[JunO 0]

i personally thinks chinese is harder, eventhough i was born with that language and i now could speak basic japanese, its just seems getting the tone right for chinese takes as while . and one sound can mean 5 different things

[barcafan84 0]

just wondering based off of the last comment.... dont flame me for not knowing.

 

i heard that japanese and spanish are somewhat simuliar... is that true?

 

sorry to hear that question, have you heard japanese and spanish movies, no i dont think so?

 

but anyways spanish and english languages have beem so corrupted with own terms and accents, so it would be confusing at the worst!!

 

i teached spanish to a couple of tourist while i was living in Nicaragua (they say its easy), but never spoke japanese or wrote it, but i see the speed is fast, so i guess grammar is important or you'll look like a retard, i dont like learning from schools but from people of that are native to their countries!!

 

believe me its not the same!!

 

i speak 2 full languages from every aspect of them, although my english is corrupted by a few slangs, but writin essays ive noticed good grammar expresions.

[Roflman 0]

I'd have to say that japanese is harder. The sentence structure is completely different as you change from polite to plain form and informal form and whatever other forms I may not have reached with my level of learning yet, and for a student when it changes it seems like the whole world has inverted itself. And also, words are often entirely omitted and you've to infer the implied meaning from the rest of the sentence, whereas in chinese this seldom if ever happens. That and a host of other irregularities I think Jin can talk about better than me...then again my opinion may be different because I'm not american and grew up in an environment where I had to use both english and chinese frequently.

 

BTW anyone here knows whats 'sense of closure' in japanese? I need it cos I'm doing up a blog post entirely in Nihongo.

 

 

 

 

[JunO 0]

I'd have to say that japanese is harder. The sentence structure is completely different as you change from polite to plain form and informal form and whatever other forms I may not have reached with my level of learning yet, and for a student when it changes it seems like the whole world has inverted itself. And also, words are often entirely omitted and you've to infer the implied meaning from the rest of the sentence, whereas in chinese this seldom if ever happens. That and a host of other irregularities I think Jin can talk about better than me...then again my opinion may be different because I'm not american and grew up in an environment where I had to use both english and chinese frequently.

 

BTW anyone here knows whats 'sense of closure' in japanese? I need it cos I'm doing up a blog post entirely in Nihongo.

 

true the structure is different, but its always different depending on what language is your mother tongue ..

[Roflman 0]

true the structure is different, but its always different depending on what language is your mother tongue ..

 

What I meant to say is that the sentence structure changes completely as you change from polite form to plain form or casual form or any other form, making it very confusing for a student...