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Glowstring vs Poi Discussion

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for me, I believe that glowstringing and poi have their differences in moves. Unlike poi, glowstringing doesn't have alot of names or moves but, most of the stuff are just variations of the certain moves in the sense of making it look unique and building combos upon. after my experience with poi in the past, I found alot of the poi moves as filter moves such as transitioning into combos even though now a days we can limit ourselves from poi and push the glowstringing arts.

 

 

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I've been reading this debate actually starting yesterday, I thought I had already read it and posted in this thread (but it turns out to be a completely different one altogether).

 

I, for most of the time I've been stringing, or spinning, whichever you prefer, have always wanted to learn both, and to actively showcase and perform both at all times, but reading this and how the poi community didn't really see glowstringing as a separate art, and even some of the disrespect towards it, makes me want to focus on stringing a lot more.

 

I do think we have come an incredibly long way from 2005 where the poi community still saw glowstringing as a part of poi (like with the whole a) B) c) d) categorization) and not long after I joined this website I already saw glowstringing as its own art, distinguished from poi.

 

I'm only on page 7 or something, and I don't know if this discussion continued from 2005 onward, but so far, it would be really interesting to see what the poists think of glowstringing now, seeing as how the art has been pushed so much further.

 

There was a certain post that made me smile on that thread, it went something like 'I dont think stringing will evolve any more than where it is presently', and it's really cool to see that people here at GS.c have surpassed poi and its limitations, so to speak. AHHHH GOING TO CONTINUE READING. : X

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I don't belive in a completely seperate move list. We already share alot of moves, but yet they call it Poi. If its a basic and integral part of our art form, its part of it. It may have been used first in poi, but a fountain is still a glowstringing move, and same for a waist wrap even if we have a different name for it.

 

here is a question. WHY call it poi? why does it get to be called poi? the weave isn't a poi move. it's been done for thousands of years in martial arts disciplines.

 

you may have a point about not defining things, but here is my take-- why not just have a huge "string" site, including yo-yo, martial arts rope darts?

 

why have separate categorization for music? it's all the same thing. why have deep house, tech house, or hard house?

 

because some people view it as a separate feeling, a separate culture. glowstringing has become that. you may not agree-- that is your right-- but this site officially recognizes glowstringing to have evolved such that it's possible to do an entire routine without making use of any kind of poi what's so ever.

 

anyway, to me anyway, this debate isn't really a debate anymore. every time i go to a meetup and see what new stuff these guys have created, i believe it more and more.

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Wait, are you saying I'm eluding posts? I'm just saying what I beleive...

 

i believe he was responding to decemberscalm

 

but yea, there would be no point in having a seperate name from poi if there was no distinction in how we manipulate poi and glowsticks other than context and the tool. that would make glowstringing a subcategory of poi when it isn't at all. not saying that the context and tool aren't important distinctions, they play a big part as well but not enough on their own to merit a distinction.

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i believe he was responding to decemberscalm

 

but yea, there would be no point in having a seperate name from poi if there was no distinction in how we manipulate poi and glowsticks other than context and the tool. that would make glowstringing a subcategory of poi when it isn't at all. not saying that the context and tool aren't important distinctions, they play a big part as well but not enough on their own to merit a distinction.

 

 

Most correct, my good man.

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I prefer the art form of Poi over Glowstringing, but I am culturally a glowstringer. PLUR, dance and all.

What am I? I guess I could define myself as a Glowstringer who Poi's. Would that be shallow? Like a so called glowstringer who battles, indulging in the art form but completely being ignorant to what it means.

 

Would it be hypocritical to be in a fire tribe and still be a glowstringer? (As described in another thread by someone). They battle for prizes, peform and use thier spinning talents for thier benefit and that of thier tribe.

I think thats alright as long as when they glowstring they adhere to its culture, and keep the poi to when thier with thier tribe.

 

Wheres the line between importance of the art and culture? The tool makes the art, but the people make the culture. The culture could easily change as any culture does over time (like poi).

 

Anybody can learn a three beat weave, it doesn't come with culture.

 

It should be every GS:C members job to uphold the culture. It wouldn't be wise to teach someone to string unless told why.

 

Poi peforms and uses it for self beneficiality (releases stress, knowing yourself).

We belong to the dance.

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I seriously don't see many stringers on here, anymore... or it is as though poi is the main focus in the glowstringing world... The more that I visit the glowstringing forums, the more I see it as turning into a subcategory of poi...

 

even threads like the "stringing idea" thread is turning it's focus towards more poi-related material than trying to prove that glowstringing is its own art/dance/etc...

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There will always be some sort of connection between the two but I definitely see them as two very different art forms with different technique and skill sets required for each of them.

 

I'll even admit to having posted poi tutorial links recently, mostly to help people with basics and fundamentals like plane control, but that's only because there's a definite lack of resources to help build those skill sets when it comes to strictly glowstringing videos... and even the ones posted by members here that help with those things, most particularly barnzee's plane control tutorial (well, the majority of them really), are filmed using poi sets.

 

As far as newer members, keep in mind it takes a while for us to start pushing the art and really get into the intricacies of things exclusive to stringing. It's been difficult picking apart manips and I actually got excited a few weeks back as I made my first original manip that I didn't pick apart from someone else's video... and I'm now about 4 months old when it comes to stringing. Give some of us newer members some time to catch up on the learning curve. I can see a few that are going to be mindblowing if given a few more months to pick things apart.

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I'll definitely admit that I lean more towards a poi-ist style in my spinning,

but i identify glowstringing and poi as two distinctly different arts.

There certainly is a LOT that can't be done with poi that can be done with glowsticks,

but as long as you're spinning two weights on lengths of rope/chain/shoelaces people are going to consider the two very similar.

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it's true that poi can help out plane control to a certain extent, but then again, glowstringing itself can do its job too in this area... also to include that glowstringing involves alot more than just plane control, such as being able to play with the strings through tossing and catching, etc...

 

there's definitely alot that can be done with glowstringing, but I guess it may take more time before it starts being pushed ahead... also, glowstringing doesn't have to only involve string manipulations, it originally did derive from wraps and such with a wide field that also includes traces, catches, etc, etc, etc that can be played with...

 

Seriously though (especially towards the more experienced glowstringers), anyone can do poi and it pretty much looks all the alike to an extent, but no one really tries to build upon a creation that seperates themselves from the norm...

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Doesn't basic plane control come into play in everything? Can you execute catches well if you're not any good at swinging in a basic circle?

 

Can you do wraps if you can't swing and hit your biceps or legs? Sure they're big targets, but a few swings into it most novices are swinging at like 70 degree angles and it doesn't take long before they lose control.

 

If you ask me, plane control is a huge part of glowstringing. Accuracy is important for being able to build solid combos. It's because of the time I spent doing poi drills to develop good technique that I've been able to learn a lot of actual glowstringing moves.

 

I agree that you can execute all of the same poi tutorials with glowstrings, but the simple fact is those resources just aren't around. Let me use manips as an example. I realize you are talking about more than just manips, however the only manip tutorials around are cleric's and they're pretty much a 'how to look like a clone' video. However that's also something people are encouraged not to do. The problem here is that, in my own opinion, most people don't want to put the effort into dissecting other peoples manips in order to learn them, so you're left with a handful of people willing to put in the effort, a few dozen more that can do clerics manips pretty well but don't dare do them in front of someone who could recognize it as Cleric's move, and then the rest who look at cleric's videos, shake their heads in disbelief and never really put any effort into figuring any of it out.

 

In my experience, people generally want to be spoon-fed. I totally agree with the idea of NOT spoon-feeding people when it comes to some of these things because it definitely stifles creativity, but the lack of resources when it comes to some of the more glowstringing specific concepts means that fewer people are going to learn how.

 

People use a variety of resources, but they basically include this site, youtube, playpoi, homeofpoi, and to some extent GxG as far as the major resources for learning the moves that are common to both arts. Like I said before, even tutorials posted from GSC members often use poi instead of glowsticks. It's hard to create that separation when so many of the resources people frequently use are poi based. I still find a lot of the actual fundamental tutorials to be lacking when compared to what's available for the same moves or conecepts using poi. I learned plane control, turns and the majority of the poi moves I use regularly from Nick Woosley and Chris Rovo. I still frequent their tutorials because, honestly, I think they're the best out there for intermediate to advanced poi concepts and they translate into glowsticking very easily.

 

If there were those same tutorials on intermediate and advanced glowstringing concepts, I'd probably be much stronger in those areas. As it stands, there's a ton of poi tutorials out there and my style, surprisingly, has turned out to be fairly poi influenced. I still make use of wraps, catches, traces, manips, string wraps and other glowstringing things, but I'm much stronger when it comes to poi because I was able to learn step by step when it came to those things and it required a LOT less work on my part.

 

CLIFF NOTES VERSION: People are lazy. There aren't many intermediate and advanced glowstringing tutorials so the few people willing to put in the work are the ones pushing the art. Everyone else is waiting on you guys to release tutorials and spoon feed the world on how to glowstring like a pro.

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I know what you mean on making tutorials. I've been trying to make tutorials now, but it's harder than it seems =/. Since no one really has made tutorials on them before, it's kinda like your figuring out the ways to teach it rather than repeating how people taught it to you. You don't only have to figure out the way to teach it, but how people can create their own variations of everything, which is pretty dang hard if you ask me. But yeah, I'm workin' on it XD.

 

About poi and glowstringing: I have a different perspective from you guys. To me, I'm never doing poi, I'm always glowstringing. I can do weaves/butterflies/flowers/isolations without a single wrap, catch, trace, and I'm still only glowstringing. I don't think the move you do chooses what type of art your doing, I think it requires two things, and two things only:

 

1) Glowsticks/strings. No matter what, you're not glowstringing in my eyes if your not using glowsticks/strings (this includes items used to emulate sticks.)

 

and

 

2) The mindset. If you're thinking you're a glowsticker rather than a poist, then you are infact a glowsticker. If you think you're a poist, then you're a poist, even if your using sticks (like Rev.)

 

To be honest, I really don't care about those who don't think they're glowstickers are here for poi. I mean it's cool to have them around, as people they are cool. But it's like someone trying to learn nunchuku coming onto glowsticking.com...

 

For the whole "the move defines the art" mentality... I don't see how that can work at all to me. Just look at all these other object manipulations that have the same moves as us. In glowstringing there are weaves, in poi there are weaves, in rope dart there are weave, in yoyo there are weaves, in all these other types of martial arts there are weaves. Wraps---> in yoyo there are wraps, in glowstringing there are wraps, in nunchuku there are wraps.... but it's not called nunchuku or glowstringing anymore, its all poi, right? Wrong.

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controlling the strings and controlling your planes are different areas...

and if you're saying that poi is about being able to control the strings itself, then why not categorize it under something else that came before it such as yoyoing?

but yeah, you don't need to be able to control your planes when doing catches, it's as simple as just knowing when to catch the sticks...

but while you do such poi moves as a wallplane weave, you must control your plane in order to have the move set in that certain plane...

 

there really isn't a need for string manip tutorials since really if you think about it, it's more of creativity than of just copy someone else, entirely... such as when cleric posted his string manips tuts, people were pretty much just taking his stuff than oppose to learning how to experiment on their own and come across things that makes them unique...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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i think there is enough moves now to totally separate the two, but the number of total number of people who do those exclusively is small. we need to increase this number with tutorials and such.

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yeah, that'll be doeable...

hopefully, we can do some of it at the pre-edc meetup if so... (unless that's only planned for dvd)

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First I'd just like to say, "holy bump of a thread batman!"

I like this thread, it's just interesting to see this come back up again. . . and now for a few quotes and my responses. . .

I seriously don't see many stringers on here, anymore... or it is as though poi is the main focus in the glowstringing world... The more that I visit the glowstringing forums, the more I see it as turning into a subcategory of poi...

 

even threads like the "stringing idea" thread is turning it's focus towards more poi-related material than trying to prove that glowstringing is its own art/dance/etc...

You don't see any stringers on here? I see a majority of stringers on this site. They might not be loud and posting all the time, but if we took a quick poll there are easily more stringers than freehanders that are on this site. As for the stringing section truning into a long help forum for poi moves, it's because people are not needing help with glowsticking ideas. Wraps are wraps, they don't need help knowing how to hit themselves with glowsticks while they're learning, because they're doing it enough on their own. Catches, manips, traces, and the sort don't get mentioned too often because it quickly turns into a 'I created this' sort of deal and people expect everyone else to site their sources if they ever use a manip made by anyone else. New people don't know what to ask or what to talk about so they simply latch onto something that they have questions about, and that more often than not is poi related because they don't know what to ask or how to ask about glowsticking moves.

 

Seriously though (especially towards the more experienced glowstringers), anyone can do poi and it pretty much looks all the alike to an extent, but no one really tries to build upon a creation that seperates themselves from the norm...

To say that all poi looks pretty much the same to an extent is to say that all stringers look the same to an extent. In the poi world there is just as much diversity in the people that spin and how they spin as there is in the glowsticking community. People might look similar just like certain glowstickers look similar, they learn from each other, or they're newer and use similar basic moves. I will have to disagree with saying that in the poi world they look similar.

 

As for being exclusive that'll be hard. I see myself as a glowsticker but there is always that fun in spinning poi, and I know poist that go to parties and use glowsticks. To be completly exclusive and banning yourself from a realative to what you already do is sort of harsh and would be nothing that I will ever do.

 

I think that the hardest part about these ideas of trying to push glowsticking is that no one really knows how to talk about it. I've posted in a few dozen handles threads ideas and concepts about what I'm working on, yet no one posts back, no one wants to discuss. It's rarely a discussion on the forums about the new but instead it is usually a simple post of, "I'm working on this" everyone then just moves on and simply says to themselves, "Okay, they're working on that, good luck to them, I'll go over here and work on this."

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I find that there's an issue in making so-called 'advanced glowstringing tutorials' because when stringers are that proficient, they will start to branch off into different areas of stringing and create their own combos. I don't think you can make an 'advanced tutorial', unless you want a lot of people to start copying off it and have us all look like the counterparts of poi-lookalikes.

 

All you can really do is make concept tutorials at that point and hope that people figure it out for themselves.

 

I think a lot of the members here, a lot of the new members, have been posting quite often and showing their videos, but not very many of them have been doing it long enough to create such a distinction between their glowstringing and their poi. So I think we should wait and see what happens instead of going on another GLOWSTRINGING > POI crusade-- I mean, gentle nudging ;)

 

edit: I would have to say that Brian's post is something we should keep in mind

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You don't see any stringers on here?

It appears more like the stirngers who signed up in the past are getting into other thans than being involved on the site. Besides, it is pretty much the same users that signs online on a daily basis. Which by my standards shows why there aren't many stringers on here. Also, the original discussion I was bringing involved the amount of glowstringers vs poists, not freehanders. Some people may be worn out and such but that doesn't mean that we limited ourselves on certain moves such as wraps can still be expanded upon.

 

Catches, manips, traces, and the sort don't get mentioned too often because it quickly turns into a 'I created this' sort of deal and people expect everyone else to site their sources if they ever use a manip made by anyone else.

Those certain moves help with experimenting our creativity such as finding different entries and exits, plus it was with TT who really done any of that crap with claiming moves... besides, doesn't poi deal with the same thing? as I can recall from HOP, whenever a vid was create, there were always members that mentions "oh hey, you must have took that off nick woolsey" or so and so...

 

To say that all poi looks pretty much the same to an extent is to say that all stringers look the same to an extent.

Actually, that was what I was mentioning earlier, since the glowstringing forum is turning towards the poi aspects and pretty much learning the same moves than trying to break from the norms...

 

I think that the hardest part about these ideas of trying to push glowsticking is that no one really knows how to talk about it. I've posted in a few dozen handles threads ideas and concepts about what I'm working on, yet no one posts back, no one wants to discuss. It's rarely a discussion on the forums about the new but instead it is usually a simple post of, "I'm working on this" everyone then just moves on and simply says to themselves, "Okay, they're working on that, good luck to them, I'll go over here and work on this."

Yeah, it isn't always easy trying to explain concepts that have not been explained before. I'm sure you can get more people into handles if you posted some demonstration videos to see if anyone is interested... I think wes might have mentioned in the past that videos are most effective when trying to push certain things... I guess that's something we all have to work on...

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i think as the bar gets raised higher with string manipulations, we should definitely make tutorials for almost all of them. those tutorials can be hosted on glowsticking.com

 

as for the DVD, i'm not really even thinking about the DVD at the moment, and no tutorial will EVER be held back for the DVD. this site should be the main focus, not a DVD.

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it's so hard to teach string manipulations because it's like forcing somebody to teach them your style.. string manipulations are mainly combos created by that user incorporated in their routine.. it's something that's hard to break down and recreated to fit the learner's style.

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Ideally if you had to make a tutorial on string manipulations, you could break down the manips so that instead of showing how to get in and out of the entire thing, you only demonstrate one concept...

 

But really this kind of discussion could be put in another thread, (making tutorials for stringing concepts, not glowstringing vs poi so much), anybody up for it?

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