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Mature Lamb

Your view on younger GS.C members

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should this topic be pinned for future insight? very good questions and answers, systemik if you would ever have any questions in the future about anything on the website or just a hypothetical question you can feel free to pm me if you would like to, even if just to talk, i think you had a very intelligent and curteous way on how to express your ideas here, i can't say as much for previous posters that had eventually led to being banned or suspended, thanks for being open minded with a willingness to listen, great topics for all gs.cers to read in my opinion.

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did this have to turn into another thread about battling? i've noticed some people tried to get back on topic, and were overlooked. could the battling/competition discussion, unless directly related to younger gs.c members, be taken off to a different thread? i'm interested in what people have to say about younger gs.c members, and it's really difficult with a debate going on that's not even on the same topic.

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The topic became about Battling because younger members are always the ones who suggest it. I am 18 and a "younger" member, and I also suggested it. So technically this is about younger members.

 

Maturity is an age independent factor. However the trend seems to be, the older one is the more mature one would be.

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In regards to SystemiK's post, one would have to argue, wouldn't experience gained with age be necessary to act with maturity in all or most situations? Therefore making maturity SOMEWHAT an age-dependant factor? Yet, wouldn't the current outlook on life of the current person define their maturity as well?

If they haven't seen much, want to experience a lot and would like to have fun, they might not even want to be mature. Although, that can be achieved with a mature attitude, which could even be the mindset of the majority of GS.c members.

If they have seen it all, or just want to have some peace and quiet in their lives, they will be more likely to act mature.

 

As people get older, they experience more and more, which is likely to settle them down, but the same could be said for someone incredibly small, who has gone through a lot recently. Even adults can be immature, says captain incredibly freaking obvious.

 

So as to the kind of immaturity where one is not able to accept other people's ideals, rules, and follow them, ... the cause is evident and I don't need to write it out even more than I didn't need to write 'adults can be immature'.

 

Maturity is a tough one, kids :sm_sleep:

It can change in the blink of an eye. I don't think anybody can analyze it effectively and conclusively. Well. That's what I think.

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Maturity is an age independent factor. However the trend seems to be, the older one is the more mature one would be.

 

 

Actually, I can't agree with this statement completely. I made a general sweeping statement that frankly, cant be proven.

 

In not much a statistician, (I am actually getting a 'D' in that class.) but I do know (I think I know) that in order to prove a SIGNIFICANT (significant being defined in this case at an alpha level of .05 or 5%) correlation, one would need to conduct a test to see if experienced but young people are as mature as inexperienced but young peoples. Experience is unquantifiable and therefore voids any possible experiments, but if it were possible to prove that more then 5% of young people with experience were more mature then unexperienced people, then it would be true that experience is a dependent factor.

 

It would be done as follows...

 

H0: Experienced = Unexperienced

HA: Experienced > Unexperienced

 

 

Well, math isn't real life, but it tires to be. I am just stating that only 5% is needed to suggest evidence of a proof of something. 5% is not much.

 

EDIT:

Wow, I just re-read this again, and it is hard to follow... I guess if you haven't taken statistics or you can't remember it, then it wont make much sense...

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The topic became about Battling because younger members are always the ones who suggest it. I am 18 and a "younger" member, and I also suggested it. So technically this is about younger members.

 

Maturity is an age independent factor. However the trend seems to be, the older one is the more mature one would be.

 

this topic wasn't going anywhere near battling, aside from mentioning how younger members tend to move towards things that are not conducive to our culture, until inexperienced members threw in their two cents about gs.c's culture. the original topic was "what are your feelings on younger members" which, as i understand it, is a question towards members who are 20+ and what their attitudes and immediate reactions are to younger members that post. not every young person gives a flip about competition & popularity, and that is proven in some subcultures, and is definitely proven on glowsticking.com. so how "give us some feedback on what you tend to expect/what your reactions are when you see someone not yet out of high school posting on gs.c" turned into a debate about competition is beyond me.

 

i'm not saying we can't debate these things, what i am saying, is to make a seperate thread, or take it to a different thread, where that debate would be more appropriate and on topic. as for this thread, obviously, the posts can't be moved easily, so i was simply suggesting that any future debating/responding to this debate be taken outside of this thread.

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However the trend seems to be, the older one is the more mature one would be.

 

Actually, you went off on an tangent when a simple observation of real life would have proven you right. I got an A in statistics, but I don't need to talk about correlation, regression analysis, or the chi-square test. Okay, I actually looked on wikipedia for the chi-square part because frankly I dont' remember. i don't even know why you went off on this tangent.

 

Maturity as defined by making correct choices that lead to rational behavior as opposed to acting on instinct or impulse. it means you use your intellect as opposed to making snap judgments.

 

A very simple observation of how insurance companies give lower rates to older drivers should tell you all you need to know about the correlation between age and maturity. they are in the business of making money, and their statisticians are the best in the world. insurance companies make a lot of money. =)

 

if you were to talk about age and intelligence, and a very narrow definition of intelligence at that, (something akin to puzzle solving on a limited, mathematical scale, or memorizing a certain number of words), perhaps you would have some kind of point.

 

as we all know, everything important in life seems to require life long knowledge and depth of experience. an engineer isn't good because he took some classes. he's good because of his experience. a manager isn't good because he graduated from wharton, he's good because he inspires trust in his subordinates.

 

here is one common aspect of youth that tends to annoy older and wiser members of society.

 

the word is sophistry.

 

this topic wasn't going anywhere near battling, aside from mentioning how younger members tend to move towards things that are not conducive to our culture, until inexperienced members threw in their two cents about gs.c's culture. the original topic was "what are your feelings on younger members" which, as i understand it, is a question towards members who are 20+ and what their attitudes and immediate reactions are to younger members that post. not every young person gives a flip about competition & popularity, and that is proven in some subcultures, and is definitely proven on glowsticking.com. so how "give us some feedback on what you tend to expect/what your reactions are when you see someone not yet out of high school posting on gs.c" turned into a debate about competition is beyond me.

 

i'm not saying we can't debate these things, what i am saying, is to make a seperate thread, or take it to a different thread, where that debate would be more appropriate and on topic. as for this thread, obviously, the posts can't be moved easily, so i was simply suggesting that any future debating/responding to this debate be taken outside of this thread.

 

I disagree with you completely. Some things are too important to let go. Maybe if more people were to have posted right away with disagreements in certain places like the colorado thread instead of worrying about minor things like whether a thread is organized enough, we would all be better off.

 

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Meh Ok im just gonna give my insight into this.....Its not about how old you are, how long you have been in the site, its more of just how mature you are and open to others beliefs and the culture itself. Theres many Young members age wise 14, 15, 16......a lot of them are as mature as some of the older members....ive seen people who arent even on the site, dont practice the art, are a friend or bf/gf of someone on the site, but are as open to the culture, beliefs and standards as many who have too been on the site for a very long time.....But if your not mature you can be 12...you can be 50....this is a site or culture not for you than because ignorance is bliss and many of us don't feel like having to read immature garbage....and as we can see by this thread Maturity rules over age/how long you have been on the site...

 

Final words...who ever wants to fucking arge or bitch about something that you know is against many of our beliefs, or say something so inatly ignorant.....get off the site because this isn't a place for you....

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also rememberthat everyone goes through certain points in their life *teenage years* when they would like to consider themselves an adult and act high and mighty towards people they dislike trying so set up an illusion that they are more mature than that person; cuz the only thing that matters is who acts more like an adult. *yeah that makes sense :rollseyes:*

 

and on the internet you can very easily make it more apparent. you have time to think out something much more intensive and do some research to make yourself sound like you retain more knowledge and are obviously amore mature person than who ever you are arguing with

 

*im not talking about on here, im talking about when teens get in arguements in person and onlne, and the whole thought of well im obviously more mature than him/her*

 

personally, i act like a child. not in the sense that i bitch moan and whine in public unless things go my way, but i love being silly and endulging in the forgotten ways of "make-believe" and i am a strong believer that imagination is completely under-utilized in today's societywhere IMO all originality is served up on a youtube link >=( but of course to people who dont bother to get to know me or hear my thoughts on in-depth and "serious" topics, will always assume that i am immatre and never grew up. but what's wrong with never growing up? the world will always be a shining jewel in the eyes of a child, and no longer do i want to view the world through scum-covered goggles when i have to talk about geo-political issues

 

but iono im just sorta rambling at this point; back on topic =D

 

everyone is guilty of flying off the handle and always will be no matter waht age you are, but as you get odler the tendencies become less and less, and i tihnk THATS what we're asking when the word "maturity level" comes up.

 

yes some people "mature" *god i hate phrasing it like this..*---

 

screw that sentece that one sucked and wasnt my belief at all, plus it was starting out pretty cookie cutter.... then again i couldve just deleted it instead of continue typing like i am right now....

 

when someone can have a conversation/arguement/talk without mentally thinking if you are coming across serious enough, if you are acting mature enough for this conversation, r if you accuse someone of being too immature to talk seriously with them; when all of those thoughts become null and void, then IMO yes you are starting to mature. no one is ever fully matured. you will never know the proper response to anything, but you will know what NOT to do, and that would be as Dave said, go off of gut-reactions and instinct.

 

on the subject of younger members rejecting rules of GSC:

 

you can claim that you are mature enough to understand the concepts of why we have these rules; if you ARE mature or claim yourself to be, if you do not believe the same way, then just leave GSC, theres no point in staying on the site, this isn't a required highschool class you HAVE to take, just click the little red "X" in the top-right corner.

 

if you DO want to question our rules, and at anypoint question our OWN maturity, then no you are not ready, and are not an adult and should not be considered an adult. this community is so strongly bound to our rules and beliefs that you should learn just from observing that one single voice will not change the tide. we have had entire uprisings on the forums because of the rules and the rules have yet to change except for the better of the community.

 

calling us nazis and "communists" *person obviously didn't know what the hell that meant, i think they meant hypocrite* shows very little maturity. iono ive just noticed that people who act poorly in public and online usually drop "nazi" "jew" and other things that i personally find VERY offensive little words sprinkled throughout their "rants" and their "conversations".

 

i understand the clique-usage of words, but things like fag, jew, nazi, communist, etc. just shows very little respect in general. and people just kinda shrug it all off by today's standards. shit i'm gonna stop myself now, and try to keep this on topic. damn this is a long ass post, i think im done.

 

in shor: age does not reflect maturity, mindsets and attitudes are what count. think before you leap....EVER

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You caught me.

 

You are completely correct. In reality, I don't speak this way; I use shorter words, my vocabulary is hardly what I use here, and I like to hide behind the illusion that I know more then I do. It is true that on the internet one can appear as old as they want with little trouble, in actuality it only takes one tab with the thread open, and one with an online dictionary. One could do research on the fly, type up, edit, and retype posts until they contain impeccable arguments with little to no flaws.

 

Insecurity becomes a compelling reason to hide in a blanket of diction...

 

But you are also wrong, this post was clearly directed at me, so I will answer in defense of those people who, "consider themselves an adult and act high and mighty towards people they dislike trying so set up an illusion that they are more mature than that person".

 

"towards people they dislike"

I do not dislike this website

 

Truthfully, I adore this place. Nowhere else have I found a sense of welcoming (other then the topic at hand) and acceptance, either in real life, or on the web. This place has secured definitions of raving and its culture for me that I was unsure about. It has given me safety instructions about Extacy and ways to pre/post-load that I believe do work. This place contains infinitesimal amounts of resources that I use every day; from videos of stalling tutorials to posts about views on younger members. The people here are friendly, the moderators are lax, and the vibe and feel is the epitome of PLUR. I dare not disrespect that, would I come on here with the intention of causing dissent, then I probably would not beg to keep from being banned. There is not a person on here who has made me angry other then Woobzy. It is a great honor and my pleasure to have the privilege to stay here.

 

"the whole thought of well im obviously more mature than him/her"

"the rules have yet to change"

 

This was not my intent on any level

I was genuinely arguing that competition is good for growth. In no way were my mannerisms meant to make anyone I was posting in response to seem less "mature" then I. I do feel that competition does improve skills, yes thats true, but I do not feel that competitions are popularity contests and spread negative views on the art. There is where the site and I disagree. Now I realize this, I will keep quite, and accept our differences.

 

"calling us nazis and 'communists' *person obviously didn't know what the hell that meant"

 

My apologies...

 

I assumed nazidom was slang for strict control of a subject. Had I know it was still an offensive word, and would be taken in an offensive way, I would have never said it. I never thought it meant hypocrite, nor did I ever use the word communist. I never called anyone a nazi, or a jew, or a fag in any of my rants or conversations. I was only shortening my sentence with a word I assumed everyone knew the meaning/intent behind.

 

 

Look, I think my arguments were taken the wrong way. I never meant to make it sound like GSC was wrong, anyone was immature, or that I was more intelligent then anyone else. I apologize for my behavior, and I will consult Pheonixxx before I post something that could piss everyone off next time. If your post was not directed to me, I still stand by this post. I feel I have made a great number of enemies, and turned alot of potential friends against me by defending competitions, and regret ever opening my mouth about the subject. I am sorry for the anger I have caused and for the friends I will never make.

 

 

 

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I was genuinely arguing that competition is good for growth. In no way were my mannerisms meant to make anyone I was posting in response to seem less "mature" then I. I do feel that competition does improve skills, yes thats true, but I do not feel that competitions are popularity contests and spread negative views on the art. There is where the site and I disagree. Now I realize this, I will keep quite, and accept our differences.

why argue for something you obviously have much less experience on, compared to this site's veterans, compared to this site collectively? why not listen and learn instead of being stubborn?

 

have you been here through the San Antonio period? the NCR? how long have you been an active member of glowsticking.com anyway?

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In the gs.c community you are allowed to express your opinion on all topics. "adults" don't think that they're better than younger members. However, we do have an ideology that we refuse to give up. We're extremely tolerant on all other issues. Furthermore, you were temporarily banned for only a week. It was a heads up about it. We even took the time to explain why your views on battling are not accepted in our community. If you don't like it, go somewhere else where you'll like it better.

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GSC is somewhat like a religion, but it is more like an activist group. A religion involves ceremonies or rituals and generally proscribes a strict way of life for members. GSC is more like an activist group because we have one issue that we feel very strongly about: to preserve the art and spread our non-battling culture. And so we fight our cause.

 

New ideas are incorporated into our culture as they are needed to be. We progress as a group. We are not a dictatorship. If this were a dictatorship, dissenters would be immediately banned without discussion nor explaination.

 

We also aren't telling people what to believe. We have our stance and you can believe it or not. We don't demand that you believe what we believe. However, we ask that if you stay, you share our ideals.

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you got suspended temporarily because you crossed the line into personal attack that was way above and beyond what is the norm for a ban, not necessarily a full on suspension. you got off light.

 

your posts have been deleted and you have been suspended.

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My view on younger GS.c members isnt really all bad. Acctually it isnt bad at all....i see/watch/read younger members post and some of them seem to be quite mature....I mean not all of them of course but some.

 

Now when i do see the younger posting i never know what to expect. Some times it doesnt even seem like the young ones are young. I just love the fact that they found this AWSOME site and the ones who follow the rules and respect the foundations of the site, fall in and get to know everyone and realize that its more then just glowsticking.....its acctually our way of life....

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understand, a careful choice of words will make a world of difference between how people will take your posts. you don't have to censor yourself, but using the same language you would use towards a customer while working at a restaurant when communicating a point will still get the point across, but will also make your point more worthwhile to older members to pay attention to.

 

they only ban the stubborn, not the inexperienced. if someone keeps arguing why battling is ok, they're just repeating the same debates which started in ILR (iloveraving.com.) if someone says "i don't see why battling is wrong" and then they catch the arguments from the other end of the spectrum, and then go "oh...i see." then they tend to get a lot more respect from more experienced members. and it remains quite simple here: this is an official business, and nobody goes around telling the business leaders how to operate their business and under what guidelines unless the business leaders ask for it. but like i said, they won't ban you unless you cross the line and get disrespectful/beligerent. you aren't required to be on this site, so, with all due respect, if you don't think we're right, you can start your own site. don't waste our time by sticking around trying to convince a siteful of people that their thesis on glowsticking culture is wrong, when they themselves built it from the ground up. and dave will, and probably has said the same thing.

 

Perhaps, but his post referenced to the Nazi comment I made, and said "that person" (as in me) had no idea what that meant.

 

I will censor myself now, I notice this place is not so open as I originally thought. The long time members all have the same views, and thats because anyone with a significantly different view was banned when they were new. :(

 

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There is a difference between being open and using tact. I think that one can fully express themselves without crossing the line to being obnoxious and or offensive.

 

This topic didn't have to come to this. We could have debated the topic on hand without it turning to battling, but, it veered here. Then it became almost annoying . . . like a dog playing with its vomit. I thought you were done. Obviously not.

 

Please be careful with your words, internet or not, dictionary or not, your words are what you are judged by in a community entirely based online.

 

People are banned because they don't follow the rules. Not because we don't like them, or we like that they are mindless and follow everything we say. We are fighting for our culture, for our family and you still don't get that, for you gsc is still a place where you come every day and try to continue an arguement, where you try to win and arguement or see what's happening . . . you don't feel that sense of family and you're not going to find it going back and forth about rules.

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I wrote this earlier when Woobzy come back, I decided I should send it to Pheonix first, but he never responded... Here is my original post. (I was angry when I wrote it, now I am not)

 

I wont change what I wrote because I do feel these values as true, but I hope you all get from this post, I am done arguing, or as Azzie put it, playing with my vomit.

 

why argue for something you obviously have much less experience on, compared to this site's veterans, compared to this site collectively? why not listen and learn instead of being stubborn?

 

have you been here through the San Antonio period? the NCR? how long have you been an active member of glowsticking.com anyway?

 

More arguing huh? Ok, well if thats what you want...

 

Who would argue the point, irrelevant of what it was, if it were not I? I have no bias, and because of this, my views are impartial. It is BECAUSE of my lack of experience, that I argue. BECAUSE I have not seen the damage nor the good it could create, I argue. BECAUSE I have only been hearing the negative side of it, I argue.

 

The Veterans all say the same, it is bad because it spreads hate, pride and anger. But not ONE has said anything about the possible positives it could bring... You know why? Because anyone that does becomes under threat of being banned!

 

So the job is left to the inexperienced.

 

Furthermore, I do listen. I listen damn well in that matter. I know EXACTLY why you don't battle now, it was made extremely clear for me. And in the club I hope to start in college, I wont battle, I wont endorse it, and I will explain to every member why the community shuns competition. I thought a friendly competition would strengthen skill, well I HAVE learned, apparently there is no such thing, and there never will be because it will never be given the chance.

 

Have I been thought the San Antonio period? The NCR? No, of course not, and for this reason, I have ignorance. I am willing to bet more then 90% of the new members arriving each day have no clue what your talking about. So they have ignorance to.

 

Do you plan on ridiculing me based on the number of squares under my name? Or the member number I have? I have views that I guarantee you will see again; maybe a long time member will start to feel different about the way battles are looked upon, or maybe the 18 thousandth member will feel like I do, either way, you will hear it again.

 

Disproving my credibility does not change the argument. I never claimed to know more then anyone else, only that I believe different.

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I thought you were done. Obviously not.

 

Please be careful with your words, internet or not, dictionary or not, your words are what you are judged by in a community entirely based online.

 

I was and I am. The arguing now has nothing to do with battling, but more for my honor and word. When I say I understand, people question my understanding. When I say I am sorry, they question my apologies. When I state my intent, they question my motives.

It seems like just because I defended competition, people are out to prove me wrong, in everything I say.

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being ignorant is not the same as being impartial. for example, if i was taught through a really old science textbook and i thought that the earth was flat. i would be ignorant, and being ignorant is just ignorant.... nothing else.

 

however, your action following the ignorance is rude. glowsticking.com is a community with its own unique set of rules and social norms. arguing why competition with glowsticking is good on this website is like going into a church to argue that abortion or sex before marriage is good. Or going to a gay pride parade to argue that they are all living in sin. where's the respect in that?

 

not to mention your arguments for competition with glowsticking is nothing new. we have been through the same debate many many times, but history has always proved us right. if you can admit ignorance, why not humbly ask the veteran members what happened when people compete and use this to learn (and act like that is your intent), instead of arguing against us?

 

if you can admit ignorance, then why not give the more knowledgable members a sense of respect and simply say, "you are probably right. battling is probably bad and ruins a lot of things. i may not have know it for myself yet, but i will follow in your foot steps because i am pretty sure that's how i will probably agree with in the long run." especially when we are providing priceless resource for you.

 

your apologies does not sound like apologies when you keep arguing after it.

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I've already talked to Systemik about this.

 

I'm going to reiterate this argument:

 

Systemik commented that, on technicality, competitions could be an efficient way to learn, though NOT "good," not acceptable.

 

People thought he was advocating battling, and started arguing.

 

People still think he's advocating battling, and he's not.

 

People started and kept insulting him, he started defending himself.

 

Systemik AGREES that battling is NOT compatible with PLUR or GSC and does NOT advocate battling or competitions.

 

How about we all stop? Flame wars are anti-GSC. Nobody understood each other.

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How about we all stop? Flame wars are anti-GSC. Nobody understood each other.

 

yes. why are we still trying to point out systemik's faults, when he agrees with us, and it was a misunderstanding. i talked with systemik as well, and he just wants the arguing to stop. he pointed out exactly what docinferno said, that he agrees with gs.c, and people seemed to ignore that. nitpick over what he says all you want, and i realize, you just want it to be perfectly clear where gs.c stands, so there's no misunderstanding, however it seems that a misunderstanding was bred due to this. systemik is a newer member, and newer members are (last i ever heard) given leniency until they learn what's what on the site. that doesn't mean he can't get banned, but it does mean that given the situation, perhaps letting it go by now is a good idea. systemik knows where gs.c stands, and at least a few of us can vouche for that, and that he should be given a break now.

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I've been looking over this for a bit to see where this goes and if it will eventually stop, and it hasn't. And I find it very rediculous that it hasn't. It's not the same argument we've been used to with other members that have fought to the point of being banned and what not. Why the hell is there still an issue with a guy who already professed that he understood where we were coming from, why we do what we do, act the way we act, he agress with us, agrees to NOT battle, agreed to end the argument like a page or so ago, and now it's getting to a point where ppl want to argue just to argue, perhaps prove a point of who's more knowledgable or whatever, I have no clue, but I know that the issue was already deaded a while ago.

 

Just let it goes as is; talk, bond, whatever and give him a chance to prove himself instead of continually beating down the issue when we've already gotten through. It's pointless and a reason ppl don't get or want to get where we're coming from if the issue goes on in the way it has in this particular situation. It's done already. We got our point across and it was accepted until further notice. Drama's interesting to a discussion, but annoying after a while. KILL IT, and get back to the topic.

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