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cynicdave

Is it time to grow our community to welcome everyone in the rave scene?

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I like the idea. GSC being a subforum? no.

 

I like the idea of two seperate websites with the same ideals and culture but having two different purposes.

One for glowsticking/light dancing. One for EDM/raves/djs/parties or whatever else is rave related.

 

I think it should OBVIOUSLY be seperate. Not like...

 

"HEY this website is also the same as gsc you should go there"

 

But more like....

 

"If you are interested in glowsticking or any other light dances or whatever, we have a sister site (gsc) that has the same ideals, culture and rules."

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I agree..

 

We have had way too much drama between members about who was a "real glowsticker" and who wasnt and what all of that meant. I dont think GSC wants that. lol

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sorry if someone covered this i havnt read any of the posts, ill get to tho soon

 

but personally i believe in quality over quantity. "everyone" seems a bit broad...coming from a site owners point of view id rather have 1 person whos respectable, willing to learn, and not immature, then 5 little immature kids ruining the scene. I think growing is a great idea, but i wouldnt want to grow too far. the scene is still very underground.

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As I said, I would add some more of my thoughts later.

As I said in my first post, I would not like to have GSC become part of another site, Having a sister site could be a good thing in my opinion. Like Rorok however, I do believe that we should go for quality first and foremost. Furthermore, I'm curious how many new people this sistersite would be able to get. Would it not become just a site with GSC members and not many more? If this is indeed the case, than I do not see a point in having this sister site because it would be just like a few of our subforums. In correspondance (spelling?) with this: would the total cost of an extra domain name be worth it?

Cheers

(p.s. If anything is unclear, this might be due to me being tired, ask if my ideas aren't clear)

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I'm very new, so I can speak on behalf of many newbies. I think most, if not all come here because of a desire to learn glowsticking. The part about culture comes second to this.

 

I myself, do care a great deal about the "culture". That is why I bothered to register on the site. Otherwise, I would have simply read the "how to" articles and watched the videos and left the rest behind.

 

I do think the articles about "culture" need to be expanded upon. There's a lot of great stuff currently on the site, but more needs to be written.

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Start the sister site on a small scale, if the results don't come, then you could easily shut the site down with no harm done to GSC itself. Worth trying to see and respond accordingly.

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alright so just my quick thoughts, on this i only read daves post, and if it where done as a sister site so it would be glowsticking.com and edmparty.com as an eg then go for it i unno how well it would be recieved ( dont know much about edm scene in america not an insult to the idea) but go for it as for spreading "plur" as a catch all for what dave described above ( dont flame for my use of plur plox direct hate mail to my inbox) then my only worry is that since its being shown as a "party" you might come off as 2 preachy to some people but thats just imo.

 

this is partly coming from my exp raves here they have this moto " respect the space leave no trace" ie dont litter and shit, and the "map point people" or peaople taht lead you to the rave where i am from inform you of these rules / guide lines while taking you to the rave, and it's kinda annoying tbh cuz saving the environemtn is cool and what not but i hate when people push their beielfs onto other people, and most of these raves are out doors as a side note - althogh to be fair this could be done to prevent the raves from being found out the day after.

 

:inmyopinion:

personally this sounds like a great idea and i would support it 100% :)

 

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I personally feel that it's unfair and a bit hypocritical for GSC (a glowsticking community) to exert its morals on other websites and aspects of the rave scene that are not discussed and/or pushed here on this website.

 

I'm using the latest decision to block LEM and other "gloving" websites as an example. If we had a gloving subforum here on glowsticking.com and actually had members here that cared about the art and practiced it I feel like we would be way more justified in that decision.

 

Just my own personal opinion but if glowsticking.com wants to expand its sphere of influence of morals and values to the rave scene as a whole and not just on the art of glowsticking as it would seem with decisions of late. Then YES by all means it IS time to expand this community by leaps and bounds.

 

Either that or confine our morals simply to the art of glowsticking and that which is discussed here.

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Yes, i think it's time to expand this community and it's morals to beyond just glowsticking. we need to make the rave scene safe for glowsticking before we can even consider moving to anywhere beyond.

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Also not sure if you know what hypocritical means. Hypocritical means we don't practice what we preach-- I think you meant to say that glowsticking.com is overreaching. Sure, you could say that.

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I'm kind of interested in what kind of approach you're wanting to take with this. For the mostpart I would really want to see GSC branch out in more directions.

 

I know its not mentioned in the OP, but with these new changes would you be intending to commercialize GSC as well? As of now I'm pretty sure this website earns no money and that you've told me multiple times in the past that you end up paying money out of your own pocket to keep the place running. Is that something you intend to change as well or is GSC strictly going to stay a non-commercial type website? Most other rave type websites I've seen out there tend to take this kind of approach in one way or another.

 

 

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Its a risk but I think its worth it.

All the people that are about getting fucked up aren't all close-minded, they may welcome the culture and adapt themselves to it.

Of course there are going to be negatives from this such as stubborn people who feel the media's portrayal of the rave scene is how it should be. These people will join the site, ignore the culture, and sooner or later end up with some drama, then they will leave, and we will all continue with our lives.

So yeah, if Gs.C, (with this other site) stands strong with our ideals, and welcome those who share them, or who wish to indulge themselves in it, then everything should be fine and the added people would be a welcoming sight.

 

To sum it up, whereas media and recent feelings of the rave scene are pushing one way, we as a community might as well expand and push in the other direction. The direction we all believe in.

 

EDIT: As for exact details of how everything should be laid out. I liked Zin's first post.

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Cody, before you throw out words like "commercialize" please try and study some of the other sites you mention.

 

Glowsticking.com is already monetized. We put up ads here. It's just not enough to pay for costs. And I'm a fucking expert at monetizing web sites. That's my day job which I get paid to do. The market for glowsticking community just isn't there and I'm not willing to ruin the integrity of GSC so that it's just 1 big ad for light shows, light gloves, and crews. The money is in a store, like a glowstick store, but even that would require 10s of thousands of dollars in investment and would require so much time that I don't honestly think I could do.

 

Most rave communities don't monetize very well, you can tell because when they sell out, they sell out really obviously. they put up really shady ads all over the place, and it's just one blnking text after another and they let people promote everything including contests and battles. cuz those SELL.

 

You can monetize like I did GSC without "commercializing it". Because you threw that word out, I'm assuming it's a negative.

 

But no, my plan would be to expand the market in which GSC lives. By having a rave community that believes the same as GSC does, I can grow the influence that GSC has with various promoters and stores. This means I could potentially have more ads about rave clothing stores and rave light stores that don't support bullshit stupid competitions, and this could potentially lead to a future in which the rave community would eek out ad revenue that could better support GSC remaining the way it does. and by saying that I don't mean GSC is in any way shape or form NOT going to remain the way it is. by upgrading to more modern servers we've cut a lot of costs, and are almost at break even.

 

 

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Well, I guess "commericalize" wasn't the right word to explain what I was trying to say but you still answered my question nonetheless.

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So after thinking about it, this is how and when this new rave community would be started:

 

When

- After all new changes to glowsticking.com has been implemented. This is probably late 2010.

 

How

- Would be a different site all together with different domain name, but would share glowsticking.com login and vice versa

- All staff members of GSC would be staff members of this new community

- A ban in one area would result in a ban in the other

- There would be a banner on the bottom that would indicate "shared" forums. glowsticking related posts and regional discussions would stay here as is.

 

Mission

- To revive the original intent of the rave community. Back in ILR/most of GSC days, people really had an instinctive problem with raver crews no matter how prevalent they seemed and no matter if they were light show crews or nordictracking crews or what not or if they knew the people in it.

- tolerate drug use but not condone it.

- accept all kinds of music

- Moderation. Since this is a much more bigger in scope, we would use the same method as ILR-- that is, bannings without explanation and without warnings. I don't really want to fall into the trap of explaining EVERYTHING since my focus is still GSC. The atmosphere would be much similar to other forums-- no ridiculous amount of hand-holding.

 

For who:

- Party goers, dancers, DJ's, club promoters, EDM people. Focus would be on all music played at raves, different regions and areas.

 

Technical:

- Would be on the same server

- Would use much of the same code as GSC

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I personally feel that it's unfair and a bit hypocritical for GSC (a glowsticking community) to exert its morals on other websites and aspects of the rave scene that are not discussed and/or pushed here on this website

 

Just kind of wanted to highlight this more.

 

I don't even understand this quote. We're blocking them on THIS site. Stopping them from paying us to do so.... is that so wrong? I don't give a shit what they do-- I mean it's preferable they don't, but hey, if they can't, then gonna remove them from this site.

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Its a risk but I think its worth it.

All the people that are about getting fucked up aren't all close-minded, they may welcome the culture and adapt themselves to it.

 

Agreed. I used to be one of those people. I still believed in PLUR, respecting the venue and all that, even though I was consuming my share of substances, and waving photon lights blindly. Once I learned about glowsticking, everything changed.

 

I'm sure there's plenty of others out there who would enjoy glowsticking for the lightshow value at first, then come to appreciate the beauty and challenge of it without chemicals.

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i still dont like the shared loggin idea.

 

and as for bannings on one equals bannings on the other im not sure i agree with either. if a member was banned strickly for a glowsticking related thing, then im not so sure they should be banned from the raving and partying side. if this is going to be the utopian vision of a website im hoping for, then it need to not neccicerily be so connected with the glowsticking side of it. especially if staff members come along to moderate the new site but have no knowledge about, care for, or respect for glowsticking. i know alot of djs that really respect the music and artists and club goers but hate glowstickers. their reasoning may be a little warped but the principle is still there. and the concensus amoung many club goers that glowstickers are just e-tards that hit people in the head and throw sticks across the venue.

 

we can try all we want to change these oppinions but the fact of the matter si that people are really stuborn and not always going to accept our side of it if they've been drilled with the "HATE GLOWSTICKERS!" messager their entire club life

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i still dont like the shared loggin idea.

 

and as for bannings on one equals bannings on the other im not sure i agree with either. if a member was banned strickly for a glowsticking related thing, then im not so sure they should be banned from the raving and partying side. if this is going to be the utopian vision of a website im hoping for, then it need to not neccicerily be so connected with the glowsticking side of it. especially if staff members come along to moderate the new site but have no knowledge about, care for, or respect for glowsticking. i know alot of djs that really respect the music and artists and club goers but hate glowstickers. their reasoning may be a little warped but the principle is still there. and the concensus amoung many club goers that glowstickers are just e-tards that hit people in the head and throw sticks across the venue.

 

we can try all we want to change these oppinions but the fact of the matter si that people are really stuborn and not always going to accept our side of it if they've been drilled with the "HATE GLOWSTICKERS!" messager their entire club life

This is precisely the reason why this idea would help garner some more respect in this rave scene in which glowsticking started. I'm tired of hearing of venues banning glowsticks and promoters banning glowsticks, when we're not doing anything wrong. We enforce our views and opinions on OUR own communities (including this new rave one), which we have a right to do. In turn, this may eventually lead to a scene more respectful towards our art-form.

 

As for your last statement, if they can be stubborn, then so can we. :) If you're fine with the stereotype of being labeled an e-tard, then so be it; but I'm not fine with it, and will do anything I can to counteract it. Farfetched? Yes. But at least I can say I tried and I helped those others who also tried.

 

And obviously if we're going to share the same views on both communities, then that means staff members should share a great amount of knowledge about the culture. Otherwise, they wouldn't be staff. Simply put.

 

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This is precisely the reason why this idea would help garner some more respect in this rave scene in which glowsticking started. I'm tired of hearing of venues banning glowsticks and promoters banning glowsticks, when we're not doing anything wrong. We enforce our views and opinions on OUR own communities (including this new rave one), which we have a right to do. In turn, this may eventually lead to a scene more respectful towards our art-form.

 

As for your last statement, if they can be stubborn, then so can we. :) If you're fine with the stereotype of being labeled an e-tard, then so be it; but I'm not fine with it, and will do anything I can to counteract it. Farfetched? Yes. But at least I can say I tried and I helped those others who also tried.

 

And obviously if we're going to share the same views on both communities, then that means staff members should share a great amount of knowledge about the culture. Otherwise, they wouldn't be staff. Simply put.

I agree with this so much. I can't tell you how much I dislike being labeled one that does ecstacy because I glowstick. I know that it comes with it, but seriously, I don't wear bright clothes all of the time, I don't chew on binkies, and I don't bash PLUR everywhere I go.

I'd love to see a change on the mindset of the overall...ugh I don't like saying this "raver", or event goer.

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When

- After all new changes to glowsticking.com has been implemented. This is probably late 2010.

Implemented and refined. The media center I'd like to be a bit more prominent, the choice of background a bit different. Also the email system to come up to snuff, maybe a small group working on the newsletter with Zin.

 

How

- Would be a different site all together with different domain name, but would share glowsticking.com login and vice versa

I think that this would be good. Having the same login would be amazing and save a lot of time and effort, but at the same time, as well as keep people identified and not dodge identities

- All staff members of GSC would be staff members of this new community

This, I think can be expanded a bit. I think it'd seem almost Oligarchical if the full staff carried over. Maybe select staff from GSC, some new specific staff for the new forum, and adjusting staff numbers if the traffic agrees.

- A ban in one area would result in a ban in the other

Hmm, this I disagree with. For example, I know several people who avoid glowstickers for personal reasons, but are amazing people. They may make remarks that come off odd or mistaken, and sometimes they just don't want to accept the art. Well, that's their choice, and I don't think that should carry over. Again, that would be superimposing GSC above the other community.

 

Some ravers are glowstickers, but not all glowstickers are ravers. That's how I think about it.

- There would be a banner on the bottom that would indicate "shared" forums. glowsticking related posts and regional discussions would stay here as is.
Banner where? Shared how?

 

Mission

- To revive the original intent of the rave community. Back in ILR/most of GSC days, people really had an instinctive problem with raver crews no matter how prevalent they seemed and no matter if they were light show crews or nordictracking crews or what not or if they knew the people in it.

So, that's banning all crews in the rave scene from this new forum? Also a lingering doubt of anyone who may affiliate with said crews in a non-competitive way?

 

- tolerate drug use but not condone it.

- accept all kinds of music

No thoughts here. Maybe partner with Erowid?

 

- Moderation. Since this is a much more bigger in scope, we would use the same method as ILR-- that is, bannings without explanation and without warnings. I don't really want to fall into the trap of explaining EVERYTHING since my focus is still GSC. The atmosphere would be much similar to other forums-- no ridiculous amount of hand-holding.
Again, outline very specifically and succinctly the rules, as well as have a section in the rules that specifically diverts them to the rule page and has a check box which will count as full support of the rules. That would justify more succinct bannings.

 

For whom:

- Party goers, dancers, DJ's, club promoters, EDM people. Focus would be on all music played at raves, different regions and areas.

Forgot the M in whom.

Technical:

- Would be on the same server

- Would use much of the same code as GSC

Maybe the backgrounds could be changed? Also, would this include a different landing page? And the "View new posts" button?

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So, that's banning all crews in the rave scene from this new forum? Also a lingering doubt of anyone who may affiliate with said crews in a non-competitive way?

This would be nice.

Forgot the "m" in whom.

Forgot the quotes around the "m". :3

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Okay, just a few thoughts about this as I've read through it.

 

1- Some of us to glowstick without raves. I've been to a grand total of 4 raves in the 9 years I've glowsticked. Don't think they go together, because they don't always have to.

 

2- A sister site I'm okay with. The biggest problem is trying to get your area of people in. What I'm talking about is how that other sites are based around one thing, one aspect, like hardstyle, trance, house, or anything else like that. How do we pull in all of those groups together? Not to mention areas. Each area seems to have it's own website and own production company with it's own website. I'm just saying that we're going to be going up against websites that already exists, are already specalized in what people are looking for, and that's what we have to go up against.

 

Best of luck to you Dave.

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Hmm, this I disagree with. For example, I know several people who avoid glowstickers for personal reasons, but are amazing people. They may make remarks that come off odd or mistaken, and sometimes they just don't want to accept the art. Well, that's their choice, and I don't think that should carry over. Again, that would be superimposing GSC above the other community.

After talking to said people and explaining why we think the way we think and they still don't want to accept the art (with values based upon the rave scene), then they can go stick to PlurLife or RaveLinks. We also don't ban on the first odd or mistaken remark. If you notice, we take time out of our own free time to explain our thoughts and beliefs. Most of the time when we see an off remark, we contact said user and talk amongst staff and veterans. These remarks are hardly reason for banning.

 

Some ravers are glowstickers, but not all glowstickers are ravers. That's how I think about it.

Banner where? Shared how?

Whether you like it or not, Glowsticking started in the rave scene. It's kind of shitty that the scene in which our art-form started is being disrespected to a certain extent. You all can sit there and point out continuously that Ravers != Glowstickers (which we are quite aware of), but I think it's high time that we start convincing/educating the original scene about our values. I feel that it also should be noted, even though I think Dave made it somewhat obvious, that our primary concern will be GSC. We are not leaving GSC to become destitute and forgotten. It's quite the opposite.

 

So, that's banning all crews in the rave scene from this new forum? Also a lingering doubt of anyone who may affiliate with said crews in a non-competitive way?

As I said earlier, we will share the same culture views. I mean seriously, you've been here long enough to realize that when we say no crews, we also mean the rave scene. You can't have a unified scene if you're just grouping up and creating animosity to one another because you practice a different artform. We should all be able to stomp, nordic track, glowstick, glowstring, glove, and conjure within the same area without worrying about someone trying to outshine another or move up on their sponsor's rankings.

 

No thoughts here. Maybe partner with Erowid?

Tolerating responsible usage does not mean we will create or partner with a substance reference library. It will just be like it is here on GSC, no talk of personal drug experiences and a helpful subforum for any responsible questions. Obviously the rules of the substance forum will most likely remain the same to protect both Dave/site & the user.

 

Again, outline very specifically and succinctly the rules, as well as have a section in the rules that specifically diverts them to the rule page and has a check box which will count as full support of the rules. That would justify more succinct bannings.

Rules and culture beliefs will probably be outlined clearly, with several links to the culture forums. Remember we are trying to utilize the same views for both forums.

 

Forgot the M in whom.

Maybe the backgrounds could be changed? Also, would this include a different landing page? And the "View new posts" button?

That's easily and most likely possible.

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if a member was banned strickly for a glowsticking related thing, then im not so sure they should be banned from the raving and partying side. if this is going to be the utopian vision of a website im hoping for, then it need to not neccicerily be so connected with the glowsticking side of it.

 

The raving and partying site will be a NEW site started by people who were partying in the 90s and still remember a time when everyone was acceptant of glowsticking, and didn't start crews strictly to fuck people up. PLURLIFE and Ravelinks don't fucking count. they sold out since day 1.

 

This site will NOT be tolerant of raver crews and competitions from the start, and will have more in common with the sites from the mid to late 90s than the rave sites that came from the 2000s boom.

 

people who think glowsticking is the only scene that don't have competitions and crews are wrong. there was a day when the whole rave scene looked down on crews and competitions and thought they were just hip-hop artifacts brought on my clueless azn gangsters and beefed up musclehead guidos who watched too much MTV.

 

GSC got the idea of not having crews and competitions FROM the rave scene.

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