Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

zin

Suspensions and Bans for Supporting Competition

282 posts in this topic

im confused....does this mean u get banned for going to the party "hapeee place"???? sorry im newbish....and if so how do u kno wat partys will support battling?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, really the fact that he dj'd WITHOUT atleast trying to ask for advice about what he can try to do about the competition is the reason for the suspension. To everyone...stop thinking that he got banned just for djing at an event. That's not the fucking reason. The fact that he didnt try to do shit while he knew about everything is the reason. Now if anybody can't agree with that, then leave.Let that be known

 

im confused....does this mean u get banned for going to the party "hapeee place"???? sorry im newbish....and if so how do u kno wat partys will support battling?

 

They advertise the battles on the party flyers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this.

 

to me, glowsticking is a hobby... it's something i do for fun. something as miniscule as djing at an event that happens to have some shitty little battle should not be taken so seriously.

 

this thread is embarrassing.

 

This thread is embarrassing because some people in here think selling out is ok. WTF is that? Djing at a club that promotes something that is against a culture you are a part of, is not minuscule.

 

Glowsticking is not my hobby, it is my way of life. I guess that's the difference between a real Glowsticker and someone who just sticks for laughs.

 

Let that be known.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are missing the point of this thread to begin with and derailed it to 3 different topics already...

 

The main point that they were making was that he was well aware that there was going to be a "battle" at the event he was DJing at. Instead of saying something to the promoter, or the site, or even the crowd of people he hid the fact that he was participating at this event (whether as a sticker or a DJ) and refused to give staff of this site the opportunity to talk to the event staff.

 

For all of you that think that Dave and everyone on the staff is acting irrational I recommend you take a step back and gather yourselves, because Dave and the staff have been VERY lenient as of late. It isn't just "ideals" or "a way of life"...everyone gets caught up on words that may or may not be the right ones for the moment. The battle and the participation in said battle is damaging to our culture and community. If you are really a raver I'm sure you've read the Ravers Manifesto. While it is kind of an ideal situation, it gives you an idea of what we work towards. Competition and proving that you are "better" than someone is bull shit...this is what leads to conflict and conflict leads to hard feelings and hard feelings leads to hate and hate leads to the endangerment of not only human life, but our culture and community. "Crews" are just sects and divisions within a culture and it tears the community apart because they demand that you pick a side...how is that fair? Why do I need to pick a side in an arbitrary fight between team grey and team grey? They don't mean anything and the outcome is the same...groups of people refusing to go to events, refusing to share, and refusing to further the betterment of the community as a whole.

 

So please, don't look at this as Dave and the staff lashing out irrationally...take a step back and reread our culture section and the articles, because I'm sure a lot of you haven't read them in a long time and need a reminder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this.

 

to me, glowsticking is a hobby... it's something i do for fun. something as miniscule as djing at an event that happens to have some shitty little battle should not be taken so seriously.

 

this thread is embarrassing.

 

I respect the fact that you feel glowsticking is a hobby but you would be surprised how many of us don't look at it as something that simple. I am certain you have heard and read that around these parts "Glowsticking is a lifestyle". This is the reason we rise up in defense of our culture and our rules when we feel they are being threatened. I don't feel the punishment for misjudging the situation is harsh at all. Jelly bean is suspended not banned. Ignorance is what is embarrassing, the rules are not hidden.

 

"He was only doing his job"

 

So? Life is about choices. When you choose to become a part of a community that has rules your must observe them without exception. If he was unsure of how it would be received he could have posted about it like many newer members do when they are fearful of violating trust. Let that be known.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to say that we aren't telling people NOT to go to a party. In fact, you're free to go to whichever parties you choose. However, at the same time, we expect our members to support the ideals of this website and help to spread the art in a non-competitive manner. It would have been a totally different thing if the plan was to go to this party and try to uphold our ideals, talk to people and make a statement by being one of the most talented glowstickers in the house and opt not to compete. That alone makes a statement, and when people ask why you aren't competing it gives you a great opportunity to explain our values and what we believe in. This is exactly how I would handle the situation if a party like that popped up in my area - I'd be stocked with sticks and GSC business cards to hand out and I'd be damned sure that my act of NOT competing is something that I discuss with people.

 

In this particular case it was known well in advance that the party was hosting a competition. There was ample time to try and do at least something. The path that was chosen was to exclude that information and ignore the problem at hand. Nobody is being suspended simply for going to a party, so let's be perfectly clear about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand it barca. When it comes to things like Prop 8 you are a stand-up guy and you really uphold your beliefs in just about everything. Then when it comes to your viewpoints on battling and competition, which I know where you stand, you say it's ok to sell out just to advance your career?

 

I'm sorry, the two just don't add up. In one case you're such a stand up person about your beliefs when it comes to life, people and religion (which I respect by the way) and then in the other instance you're essentially saying your beliefs are ok to sacrifice because of your love for music or your desire to advance your career as a DJ.

 

As for me and you, all is cool and you'll always be a friend. It'd be sad to lose you as a contributing member of this community, especially over something like this, but I guess we'll have to respect your decision whatever that may be.

 

The battle and the participation in said battle is damaging to our culture and community. If you are really a raver I'm sure you've read the Ravers Manifesto. While it is kind of an ideal situation, it gives you an idea of what we work towards. Competition and proving that you are "better" than someone is bull shit...this is what leads to conflict and conflict leads to hard feelings and hard feelings leads to hate and hate leads to the endangerment of not only human life, but our culture and community.

 

Thank you for realizing what's really at stake here. This isn't just about one person, one group of people or one DJ having the right to perform. This is about protecting this art from being bastardized and not helping to encourage further destruction of something we love. This is about our culture as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To a lot of people, personal relationships, no matter how short, or how online, or even if it's just some online relationship, is worth more than any kind of ideal. the need to feel connected to a single person, no matter how distant, is worth way more than anything else.

 

I tend to take idealistic people for staff members and the people i hang out with. people who believe in a goal and work towards it. i don't really care for people who live in the here and now-- no matter what the consequences. it's just not worth it for me. some people are willing to change their beliefs to help a friend-- i'm an opposite. my friends respect me because i don't do that.

 

however, i can totally understand that reasoning and respect it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest wuxanaXan

dave, and to the rest of the gs.c staff

im pretty sure i dont have to say this, because

it has been stated over and over again

we do respect your work, and all that you, and the rest of the staff do for the site.

but...

i am going to try and adress every issue that has been brought up,

and its going to be ridiculously long

i hope that you do read everything i will say on here,

because i do hold all of you in the highest regards and respects

and i hope you will do the same for me, because i consider myself a "real" glowsticker

who lives to this sites ideals to the best i possibly can

i also want you to keep that in mind,

 

lets get the facts straight

i did not go to that party. i'm being honest.

what the hell is with you saying "i am too weak to say anything against this?"

how the f* can i say anything against it if i wasnt there?

if you dont believe me, call my mom and ask her

she will tell you

that before the event, i was at a open house and portfolio review for college

and that i stayed home the entire time we got back

 

your "information" about this was only coming from zin;

who i can honestly say is unreliable, and even worse,

someone that cant be trusted

i mean for one thing, he sells us all out,

before even confirming whether or not we really went to that party

do you really want someone like that as staff?

who makes assumptions without further looking at the facts?

gs.c is a close-knit community right?

something like this is just hating, and i know for a fact we dont appreciate that

 

secondly,

how the hell are you gonna watch what i do?

unless you have a camera in my home,

or even someone else outside watching me,

then i find this hard to believe.

i dont think i say anywhere on this site

anything that would go against gs.c's ideals,

with the execption of this thread, which is brewing in major controversy

 

to the subject at hand

the poi competition was also not as heavily advertised as you might have thought;

yes i knew there was competition there, but i had nothing to do with,

nor do i want anything to do with it.

i had a flier, and the poi competition ad in it was negligable

that aside

this almost has nothing to do with glowsticking.

the contest was one involving poi, not glowsticking

we on this site promote glowsticking as its own seperate culture right?

but small things like this say otherwise,

that because there is a poi battle at this party,

and you choose to say, that glowstickers like us are affiliated with them

but we were not in that competition, nor were we there to support it

you're ignoring the fact that we went to see elvin spin,

and to have a good time, both which have nothing to do with battling

 

i know for a fact that gs.c possesses a multitude of artists

working in the professional field of visual arts (i mean paintings, drawings, photography, etc.)

that includes myself

are you going to suspend/ban me

just because i participate in an art contest

to win scholarship money for school

and to get my artwork out there and recognized?

and let me say this as well,

when im in these contests, im not doing it to put down other people

the main issue i see that gs.c has with battling

is putting down other people and creating negative feeling

 

and then to adress what you guys feel is the real topic

i really do, i understand your point of view,

that elvin was not so wise for choosing to spin at this event

but in his heart and mind, he isnt promoting battling, which is why he chose to spin

he wants to spin for the crowd, not for the battlers

 

and glowsticking is to us a lifestyle

unless you can come down to socal and hang out with us for a day or two

i dont think you can judge us by what we post on here unless it is

ridiculously and blatantly offensive

we should all realize that not everyone can choose their words carefully

 

and one more thing dave

no one else really did anything to steer elvin away

i dont count zin as someone who should talk to elvin about this,

for personal reasons that he has,

but zin couldve told you about this dave,

and in turn you couldve talked to elvin, and maybe some change wouldve been in order

i know for a fact that he didnt come to you directly,

because if zin did notify you beforehand, you wouldve tried talking elvin,

who in turn would tell me about it.

 

now, something that is really offensive...

what the fuck do you mean by "you people"

who is this? non-staff gs.c and the staff who DO hang out with us?

 

how the hell do we steal ultras from you at these parties,

if we dont even see you?

you are the official rep of gs.c dave, but you dont even spend that much time with us

not that we are "dickurt" about this

but it goes to show how much you really know about us non-staff members

who get together and talk a lot

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive never even seen a post from the guy.. If he cares more about DJing than glowsticking then why should it even matter to him if he gets suspended or not?

whats he going to miss out on?

Big fuckin deal....

 

You dont have to make glowsticking your life to care about what the glowsticking scene stands for. At this point in my life it is only a VERY part time hobby but I still care about what happens to it as a culture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wuxanaXan....to correct you...there WAS glowstringing in the competition. I know this for a fact becuase, coincidently, the winner of that competition added me on Plurlife and he was glowstringing(him and i had a good talk about why competition is wrong and he really understood our stance against it and what it does to the culture).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ive never even seen a post from the guy.. If he cares more about DJing than glowsticking then why should it even matter to him if he gets suspended or not?

whats he going to miss out on?

Big fuckin deal....

 

You dont have to make glowsticking your life to care about what the glowsticking scene stands for. At this point in my life it is only a VERY part time hobby but I still care about what happens to it as a culture.

 

Very good points Bueno.

 

Jellybeanx told me he was mad big in Malaysia, that he spun with Yoji just like I have and mad other famous DJs. If that's the case, again, why did he spin at an event that promotes battling? He shouldn't have to be scroungin for gigs at the level he claims to be at. That shit's weak.

 

wuxanaXan....to correct you...there WAS glowstringing in the competition. I know this for a fact becuase, coincidently, the winner of that competition added me on Plurlife and he was glowstringing(him and i had a good talk about why competition is wrong and he really understood our stance against it and what it does to the culture).

 

Good info. Should set some shit straight. Let that be known.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are going to defend the action of "battling" at an event I suggest using a different analogy than an art contest.

 

An art contest is a display of creativity using a wide variety of mediums, or only one medium if that is what is called for. But, that is just it...its just art. While we do view this as an art form (and dance is a form of art), this is not just a canvas with paint smeared on it to look pretty. This is a CULTURE. The part that everyone seems to miss within this whole pot of he said she said and OMG NO HE DIN'T! It isn't a diss on the art form that everyone is up in arms about...it is the promoting of the very thing that this site was built to defend...THE SCENE...THE COMMUNITY...THE CULTURE.

 

There are sub-cultures of art I guess...but it just isn't the same...you are comparing apples to oranges here when you obviously can't tell the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The initial punishment was equivalent with the intensity of the crime. A one month suspension is not a deletion, it's a wake up call. Participating in a lightshow/glowstick competition should not be tolerated. DJing a party endorsing this action isn't exactly the same thing as participating...but it's still supporting to some extent.

 

I've met Elvin. He's a nice guy, and we're friends. I understand the anger seen on both sides of this arguement, but every action has a consequence, whether it be good or bad.

 

If anything, one month is pretty generous, especially for somebody who's been here for a while.

 

To Bueno: He posts more frequently in the SoCal part of the boards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wuxanaXan:

 

read and you'll see most of what you said has already been brought up. when i say "you people", I mean people like "you", who don't take responsibility for their actions.

 

Zin selling YOU out? fucking take some responsibility for a change. WHY THE HELL DO I HAVE TO GO IN THERE AND TALK TO SOME GUY LIKE JELLYBEANX PERSONALLY? My time is limited for important people who actually do shit. You can't have a single person simply warning you? you need an entire crowd? i'm NOT your fucking mother.

 

and as for stealing ultras? yeah, at the EDC ultra circle. ask some people you hang out with if any of them took ultras and put it into their pockets when they had a bag full. i saw it. and other people saw it.

 

and those are some of "you" people i'm talking about. you consider them friends, but do you really know them?

 

how the hell do we steal ultras from you at these parties,

if we dont even see you?

you are the official rep of gs.c dave, but you dont even spend that much time with us

not that we are "dickurt" about this

but it goes to show how much you really know about us non-staff members

who get together and talk a lot

 

your sense of time is so narrow.

 

i think in years. you think in days. i missed meetups from 07/2008 to 11/2008, and you consider it "never".

 

You should really correct yourself. I don't hang out with YOU. I don't like your attitude, and I don't like the asshole tendencies of some of the people you hang out with, who whine and complain and bitch about not being picked on staff and talk shit about staff members and then do shit like take ultras in the ultra circle even when they have a bag full.

 

I'm trying to tell you you need to change your attitude and change the way you do things, because of the way you post and the way you lead your attitude on GSC, me nor any of the other important glowstickers will associate with you. we're not going to give you our honest opinions about things about how to improve your style, because we don't care and even if we did tell you, the attitude you have makes it impossible for us to reach you because you'll just say what you know, not what you don't know.

 

so take responsibility for your actions, for planning to go this event knowing all that you did know. that's what at stake. not whether you actually made it, which i take full responsibility for that error, because i wasn't completely sure if you made it to the party or not.

 

Zin selling you out?

 

grow some balls and man up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knowing people on both sides of the argument in this thread, I would not question anybody's loyalty to the ideals of which this site was founded. However, what may be questioned by members is the level of active involvement needed to demonstrate such loyalty.

 

Myself as an example, I had not known about the poi competition until a saw a blurb of it in the flyer posted in the events section of this page. I did state dismay in what would be taking place but thought if it's posted here on GS.C I will attend with caution. However, it did fail to trigger that thought of "we need to enlighten to the promoters and request the compeitition to be taken down" that would have prompted me to seek advice from staff and other members.

 

I'm not a battler, have questioned and attempted to educate those who have attempted to battle with me and have no intentions to even see any competitions. I admit this is naive in retrospect as attending would still have been an indirect support of the competition but I believed at the time with that alone I was adhering to our guidelines and had no major reservations in attending a party such as this from there.

 

Perhaps my failure here is that even after learning the culture and discovering from more tenured GS.C members about it's history I still did not realize what was required of me. Being here for only a year and a half I was not around for the drama with TT, StringE or the tragedy that befell Aaron and Misty. And while I have always seen battling is flat out wrong, the severity of it and the proactivity needed to rid of it as seen by the staff for example was not.

 

In the weeks that had followed, mentions of the party were focused on the support of Elvin's performance. Disappointing for many of you to hear, I forgot about the competition and my knowledge of the party thereafter was the focus on Elvin's performance. Perhaps my fault here would be the lack of due dilligence in researching the event and notifying everyone interested in going.

 

While I do not necessarily agree with the measure taken on Elvin, I do understand that as a current active member of this site I am responsible for actions even outside the boundaries of these boards and must adhere to whatever discipline awaiting me.

 

That said, please let it be known that there are possibly a number of members who had planned to attend without the knowledge of the competition and did not attend to spite Glowsticking.com ideals as what some may be led to believe from this discussion. To the date of the party I had not received any messages from staff initiating any discussions about the event. Perhaps, Ravergirl was thought to have intervened long before but wasn't aware of the competition until discussing with other staff a day before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow this thread blew up.

I've been kinda missing some imporant threads with all my crazy job hunting.

 

Elvin is my friend, and like how Patrick says we wanted to go and support him.

 

He should have told us about the competition though, cause I didn't even know until the day right before. Elvin never saw what's happened in the past, so I don't think he understood that all we want is to help. This could have played out a lot differently.

 

I know DJing is Elvin's career, but then again glowsticking is just his hobby. He doesn't have be here if he doesn't want to follow the rules.

 

He just got a temp ban, good for him. Maybe he'll learn and understand gs.c values better.

 

I talked to him on the phone before I read this thread, he just wanted to know why he was suspended. I had to look it up. I gotta read gs.c more...

 

I would have done something with more knowledge, but my family, unemployment, and other situations have been distracting me.

 

In my opinion, Elvin is Lucky. He gets a more immediate second chance than others in the past.

 

Glowsticking is more than just a hobby for a lot of members and staff here. Its been a big part of my life since 2003. This website shares my beliefs in it and I do stand up for it.

 

Some people change, others will not.

I just don't think he wanted to get in trouble but he didn't realize how gs.c is about these things. We want our culture to stay "real".

 

He's probably not as strong-willed as rai when it comes to talking to promoters. I don't know what its like... but still. I heard about the party word of mouth. I didn't see the flyer or anything... I gotta do more research.

 

I just wish I knew sooner.

I could have done something.

 

-RG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wilson it's funny to see you pointing the finger at Zin and talking about integrity after you basically plagiarized all of Last Singularity's video a few months back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wilson it's funny to see you pointing the finger at Zin and talking about integrity after you basically plagiarized all of Last Singularity's video a few months back.

 

and then played dumb about it.

 

 

to wushu-raver and ravergirl

i realize totally that is what happened and that is why i'm not really blaming you guys for anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Blitz

Dave, i'm fairly certain you have claimed in the past that gsc is not elitist (this word has been brought up many times... if you never said this please correct me), yet in this thread you specifically refer to people who agree with YOUR ideals "real glowstickers."

 

Explain this please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why do i get the feeling that most of the drama on this thread is from the handling of this? now, before reading this thread, i hadn't heard about any of this but it looks like that people are on a witch hunt here. people being accused and threatened with banning in a public forum by staff members sends the wrong message about our "unity". if i was a a new member or a first time poster and i saw this thread, i would not have come back. this is reminiscent of the old "ban thread" that was pinned in the general. while i do, on principal, agree with the staff's decision to ban and suspend, this thread is a policy disaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave, i'm fairly certain you have claimed in the past that gsc is not elitist (this word has been brought up many times... if you never said this please correct me), yet in this thread you specifically refer to people who agree with YOUR ideals "real glowstickers."

 

Explain this please?

 

look dude, you've always been a naysayer here. you can disagree. and you can leave. nobody is questioning the actual ideals, some people are disagreeing about the punishment or how it's handled.

 

when i say "real" glowstickers. i truly mean that. everyone else who claims they are glowstickers but do not follow the culture i don't really consider to be glowstickers. i think of them as posers.

 

since the criteria is completely value based, as opposed to money, skill, or talent, it's an equitable criteria that's solely my opinion.

 

is this "elitist"? only if you think being a real glowsticker is being elitist. some people are DEEPLY involved in glowsticking culture, not just the mechanics and skills of glowsticking. this thread is for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
why do i get the feeling that most of the drama on this thread is from the handling of this? now, before reading this thread, i hadn't heard about any of this but it looks like that people are on a witch hunt here. people being accused and threatened with banning in a public forum by staff members sends the wrong message about our "unity". if i was a a new member or a first time poster and i saw this thread, i would not have come back. this is reminiscent of the old "ban thread" that was pinned in the general. while i do, on principal, agree with the staff's decision to ban and suspend, this thread is a policy disaster.

 

because you are completely right.

 

the drama is intentional. it wasn't unintentional. consider that long time members didn't think to even remember this or even consider it important.

 

sometimes you need to let loose some emotions for people to remember again.

 

and the cutting out of the degradation of our values is more important than 1 day of potential newbies seeing this. of which our staff members are doing a great job recruiting. if it turns away some people who don't get the picture with all the people posting in it, then it was the right people to turn away.

 

some people think in terms of their their immediate people and surroundings around them and the phone calls and IM's they get. they don't realize that a lot of things are done for the community at large, not them. it would be way easier to be loved and just to let things slide, but when has that EVER been me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.