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Thoughts on Copycats (Biters)

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lololol

 

Chen, Spazz, Dnuos, and Griever get chomped by Freque.

 

 

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Biting is stealing when credit should be due. One day at Havok in Houston I saw a spinner peform a wierd manuver while figure eighting with strings (mini corkscrew). I went up and asked him what it was and he kindly taught me ^^ (horizontal buzzsaw in between a corkscrew). Very simple, and something I can toss into my move list now. This was about a 3 months ago, and I wouldn't have handled it any different.

 

I remember Havok. I loved that place! It gave off a more legit rave feeling. Too bad, it's gone now. All i can go to now is Dallas to look for the good places.

 

Anyways, on topic. I believe its perfectly ok to take moves off people. There's no new idea, there just recycled, tweaked, and personalized. Without copying, there would be no advancement in the art. Also, when I teach someone a move, it drills that move in my head better because I have to slow down and concentrate on each section, which in turn helps me find a way to make that move more complex with a different twist in the move or another way to get in it. Biters are the next generation, without them, there would be no improvement.

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A certain someone once said "Envy is ignorance, Imitation is suicide." You make me smile if you know that quote.

 

 

Not a big quote guy but i do know that one... Emerson. Self Reliance - "To be great is to be misunderstood."

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As long as you're taking IDEAS and being INFLUENCED it's not copying. I consider "biting" to be lifting exact moves as they are performed by someone else, rather than just taking an idea and making it your own.

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i'll admit i've gotten caught up with the idea of furthering the art so much that at times i've looked down upon biting in that you should feel bad about it. yes, when ur trying to further the art, biting is not the option you should go for. becoming carbon copies of others will not further the art. but the part about biting that's bad though as i've mentioned before is actually claiming something of which isn't yours.

 

however, aside from falsely claiming other people's stuff when it isn't yours, biting shouldn't matter. some people don't worry bout pushing the art and just have fun glowsticking in general which is totally ok. my cousin has been doing it longer than me, yet has nothing really original that he can really call his own except for a few moves. his style doesn't really stand out, but as long as he enjoys doing it, it doesn't matter. same thing goes for other dances/arts. i've never felt original when it came to funk styles. i felt like a lot of things have been done already having seen so many videos. nevertheless i still enjoy it to this day and that's all that matters to me.

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Jstudd is right about the fact that whenever you try to invent a novel concept, it is entirely possible that someone else in another region will come up with it at the same time as you. Historically, this is true in many instances: Newton and Leibniz created calculus at the same time; Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace both published papers on the theory of evolution at the same time; and so forth. But I argue that such incidents should not be discouraging because even if someone else also create that same idea as you, you still put a lot of work into your creation and should feel accomplished about it. And I hope that the two inventors can look towards each other with mutual respect instead of snarling hostility.

 

The next question is how to personalize a common concept. It is clear that even though the basic notion of the 3-beat weave or the figure-8 is known to most glowstickers, one can often distinguish two glowstickers in the dark, just from their body motions or individual gestures within that "same" technique. Idealistically, credit should be given for inspiration and beyond that basic inspiration, the artist/dancer should further that basic concept in his own ways. For example, I took inspiration from lis102trants' color-switching techniques but my handle routines have a distinctively different flavor from his, even though I may use some of the same color switches. I wrap differently, I transition into the switches differently, I step my feet around differently, and so forth. And I give full credit to his basic foundations that I use.

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old thread but i just found it lol its true though i agree i felt that way as wellmore than just a few times ive seen some of my unique wraps taken

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the fact that people think they made up a move and won't let anyone else 'copy' or at least incorporate that move to one's style is pretty gay. i mean alright so the first person who came up with the moves like alternate arm wraps or weaves should all call us biters >.> [just a prime example] well come on it's all in the ego.. i don't give a shit if a person 'steals' a move i 'made up' ... i don't believe in the existence of creator of a move a biter mimicking the move. >.> it's all love... share people >.>

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Wow, this really is a MUST read, itis great information and it is really helpful to know where the moves originated from that we all use today. Everyone should read this post some time or another.

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Wow, this really is a MUST read, itis great information and it is really helpful to know where the moves originated from that we all use today. Everyone should read this post some time or another.

 

Touche on that one!

 

I made a combo just last week, and i showed it to my friend.

 

Today, he came to my house for lunch, and did the EXACT thing, except at the end, instead of doing a wrap on his leg (Like i did it) he did it on his arm.

 

That made me absolutely angry.

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Touche on that one!

 

I made a combo just last week, and i showed it to my friend.

 

Today, he came to my house for lunch, and did the EXACT thing, except at the end, instead of doing a wrap on his leg (Like i did it) he did it on his arm.

 

That made me absolutely angry.

dude u should be happy ur friend learned something from u u passed on some knowledge like i understand if u dont like someone biting ur style but i think if one has there own flow it cant be imitated....ur boy may do the same wraps but does it look exactly like the way u do it??? and even if it does we all learned from someone like the post said...and unless u created a new concept theres no way u can have a patenet move these days seven though everyone has there routine and combos.

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Just my two cents.

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with anyone 'stealing' anyone's moves..

 

Think about it this way: If someone is using a combo that they learned from you (which, remember, is the entire point of this culture to an extent) then 2-3 months down the road they'll only use that combo to expand to something different and unique.. I mean if you really don't want anyone to copy your move, then don't do it.

 

We all do weaves and helicopters.. You can't discredit the person that made those moves up, nor does it matter who did, the fact is: the move is there for us to use an abuse in any of our signature repertoires..

 

It's kind of like music also. You hear somebody singing over a beat or instrumental that's been used hundreds of times elsewhere, don't discredit the song just for the beat; instead, listen to the lyrics and accept it as a new song. In other words, look at how the person ties the combo into their entire performance and don't regard the combo as being stolen. Guaranteed when you see their next video, the combo won't be there.

 

And for the record. The hybrid collab, I believe, has my footage where I stole a manipulation of Cleric's. Who hasn't?

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the fact that people think they made up a move and won't let anyone else 'copy' or at least incorporate that move to one's style is pretty gay. i mean alright so the first person who came up with the moves like alternate arm wraps or weaves should all call us biters >.> [just a prime example] well come on it's all in the ego.. i don't give a shit if a person 'steals' a move i 'made up' ... i don't believe in the existence of creator of a move a biter mimicking the move. >.> it's all love... share people >.>

 

Agreed. I went to a small Tracy party last year where anybody who was attempting freehand was only doing figure 8's. I went into my toss routine and did some elbow pit stalls and spin catches (spinning the glowstick in a circle as one is in the air). A few hours later, I saw people trying it out and even doing the stomach trace although it wasn't clean. It made me smile more than anything. I guess in my case they weren't doing the exact same move combo, but just taking a move or two from my routine and trying to learn it, but even if someone did, I wouldn't be that upset. If anything it pushes me to better refine my moves and attempt new things.

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Look at all the "best" stringers and freehanders we look up to. We can name their moves and how they transition from one to another. And we've seen other people do some of the same transitions or moves. But because someone got the idea from someone else, it's no reason to get angry or irrational. Simply put, we all expand on each other. I can name every member who taught me all my moves, but because I came up with a Combo I think is my own, I'm happy bout that. If someone walked up to me from this site and said, "hey, you stole my move!" I'd just say "sorry, didn't know it was patented. Kick ass idea!" I think that it's not right for people to get sooo protected.

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Look at all the "best" stringers and freehanders we look up to. We can name their moves and how they transition from one to another. And we've seen other people do some of the same transitions or moves. But because someone got the idea from someone else, it's no reason to get angry or irrational. Simply put, we all expand on each other. I can name every member who taught me all my moves, but because I came up with a Combo I think is my own, I'm happy bout that. If someone walked up to me from this site and said, "hey, you stole my move!" I'd just say "sorry, didn't know it was patented. Kick ass idea!" I think that it's not right for people to get sooo protected.

dude lemme rephrase what i ment

 

yourr combo isnt your combo yes u came up with it on ur own but lord knows how many other people do that combo trust me its impossible for u to say nobody does...you should read more on that thread and realize how we are about sharing not complaining sayin thats my move but like the thread said its always good to thank those who tought you our were you learned from so again theres no reason to be mad bro

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Word.

 

Glowsticking isn't about owning anything. It's about creating, learning and sharing. Almost martial arts esque. So when someone does "your combo" you should be proud and congratulate them on doing it. Then collaborate, thats how this art and community grow.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad or anything. Far from it, I believe exactly what you said, Chewy. I just think with, like Saving Texas, that is bullshit. But Yeah, I'm all for building the community. I know you're not complaining. Sorry if it came off wrong. You can only convey so much emotion over posts :).

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Look at all the "best" stringers and freehanders we look up to. We can name their moves and how they transition from one to another. And we've seen other people do some of the same transitions or moves. But because someone got the idea from someone else, it's no reason to get angry or irrational. Simply put, we all expand on each other. I can name every member who taught me all my moves, but because I came up with a Combo I think is my own, I'm happy bout that. If someone walked up to me from this site and said, "hey, you stole my move!" I'd just say "sorry, didn't know it was patented. Kick ass idea!" I think that it's not right for people to get sooo protected.

This is so true, you have to experiment with your friends moves and different styles I guess, everyone has there own mind. And if you combined other peoples styles to yours you can always take it further. For me I just want to push glowsticking as far as I possibly can and you need other peoples thoughts and style to take it further. I truly mean no disrespect this is just how I feel.

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dude u should be happy ur friend learned something from u u passed on some knowledge like i understand if u dont like someone biting ur style but i think if one has there own flow it cant be imitated....ur boy may do the same wraps but does it look exactly like the way u do it??? and even if it does we all learned from someone like the post said...and unless u created a new concept theres no way u can have a patenet move these days seven though everyone has there routine and combos.

 

I guess you're right. The combos we construct were probably used a thousand times before, just added to a different style. So when someone "copies" your combo, it's not necessarily copying. It's just another way to build on their own style, and hopefully, expand on it.

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Saw this thread this morning and had to post. That was a good link that Wes posted. The only way its full on biting is if you don't give credit where it's due. I have expanded on a few moves I've seen Dave, Chen, Koki, and Paul do but my style has evolved into my own.

 

If I were to call people biters then most of the new school Freehanders have "bit" my thread tosses which is what I've brought to the art. You know what though? How do I know someone else in the world didn't do a helicopter toss while inside a thread the same time I discovered it. How do I know someone didn't pull the helicopter thread toss to foot stall combo I did in the MadRaverRai Anniversary video.

 

Although at the time of that vid's release, I was finally acknowledged by the site as one of the rising leaders of Freehand on the East Coast, I don't rub it in every stickers face when I see them do a thread toss to overhead catch, or a thread toss to btb catch. That's just stupid.

 

Expand and learn from each other. This is the true way of the Glowsticker. To be honest I'm working on moving Glowsticks with my mind. lol

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flattery is the highest compliment.

 

i will admit back in the day i did steal freehand moves.

BUT also back then if i walked over to a dancer and asked him/her to show me how to do a move in slow mo they'd do it then id copy it and then wed shake and thats it.

 

As it has been so often said. Sticking is an art form. And all artists have varying degrees of talent. some artists arent very creative perhaps they have a good eye a steady hand and great coordination but without that spark ingenuity.

 

since im new to this i can only hope that i will be able to create my own style. Oh and i always give credit to the peepz who assist me

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When does it stop being "Original" and start being "stolen"?

 

Here is what I think. If you use certain moves from other stringers, stickers, poists, whatever, then okay. Whatever. There aren't enough moves in the world for only one person to use. We'd all be one trick ponies.

 

I believe that the only time people should get pissed off and upset and defensive.... is when someone copies someone else's "session", "routine", "act", whatever move for move, entirely or majorly.

 

Making matters worse would be to use the same song, etc etc etc.

 

-shrug-

Just stating my own opinion.

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I feel like in the case of someone seeing it across the dance floor and figuring it out really isn't that uncooth, we've all admitted to doing it when we first started. It's something different though when one has equal skill with someone and then mirrors a full 2 minute routine. Learning a wrap combo yadda I don't feel is biting, its how they transition into and out of that combo and see if they add anything to it. I find that its not copying to try and figure out a move by watching it, I think its understanding the object and motion better because you need to figure it out instead of being shown. Now if you're all circling and you pull out one hot minute of clean smooth original wrap combo's or however you feel like dancing and the next person does the exact same thing, footwork to handwork then yeah, that's not right.

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