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Mindlesslogic

The Hybrid Revolution

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At first I didn't understand what was going on here with all the confusion and such talk. However, I read it over three times and I think I know the solution. I took a look at MarryAM Webstar E-encyclopedia and did a bit of research of freehanders, stringers, and tortoises to find a proper definition.

 

stringhander

-noun

A giant sea tortoise that lays 12-24 eggs every Thanksgiving. Stringhanders became endangered at the end of the 21st century due to poorly disposed 6-pack can plastic wrap thingies. If you want to preserve the stringhhander population, please join our campaign at Jones beach this Saturday at 10 PM. Jesus Siddartha Mohammad will be spinning live from on top of the stringhander tower!!!

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ginseng.... you never fail to make me laugh bro.... btw... i'm whatever you wanna call it.

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I'll punch you in the face if you call me a stringhander.

 

-PLUR

 

I think every post should end with PLUR..

 

and the cute little smiley that is a post disclaimer...

 

:inmyopinion:

 

-PLUR

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I'll punch you in the face if you call me a stringhander.

 

-PLUR

 

LOL CLERIC

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add me to the list of hybrids, in the sense that I switch between freehanding & stringing. ...Or do both, or separately. Whatever.

 

Simply put, I freehand too now. Often with strings still attached to the sticks. wheee! :D

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lol .. i am too lazy to read the past pages on this debate.. @_@ .. plur has a new definition >_<!

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in my opinion people who freehand with strings attached aren't freehanding. you are imitating some aspects of freehanding, not freehanding. so you guys aren't hybrids. by having a string attached, you guys stop being freehanders, because that gives you more options to do things, and takes away some options to do other things. it's not worse or bad, or anythign like that, but by having the strings there, you guys are stringing.

 

it's quite a literal, semantic type argument, but i think it's a good one. just because freehanders do the weave and other moves that look like stringing, you guys NEVER say we are hybrids.

 

this is exactly the same argument.

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in my opinion people who freehand with strings attached aren't freehanding. you are imitating some aspects of freehanding, not freehanding. so you guys aren't hybrids. by having a string attached, you guys stop being freehanders, because that gives you more options to do things, and takes away some options to do other things. it's not worse or bad, or anythign like that, but by having the strings there, you guys are stringing.

 

it's quite a literal, semantic type argument, but i think it's a good one. just because freehanders do the weave and other moves that look like stringing, you guys NEVER say we are hybrids.

 

Mmm, but then where do you draw the line between imitation and actually freehanding? I think that one can actually produce a freehanding style, even if the glowstick so happens to have a piece of string attached. If we spend 90% of a routine tracing, tossing, "typically" freehanding, is it still automatically stringing?

 

Sure, strings may take away the ability to do some things clearly-- though I would like a couple of examples. Tosses, stalls and airborne moves could be messier, I admit. But we don't call freehanders who imitate stringing moves-- without strings-- hybrids, because they can only imitate; they can't actually perform any stringing moves accurately without strings. Stringers who freehand still can.

 

To clarify, also, is being a hybrid in your eyes only referring to possessing the ability to either freehand or string-- never both?

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the string being attached will make some moves impossible to do. a helicopter toss is rendered impossible. not messy, but impossible. fast juggling combos are impossible to do because the balance is completely wrong because of the strings following it. some moves are can be imitated, but i don't consider it the same thing simply because, yes, the string is attached to it.

 

you can't trace the same way simply because there are strings attached. when stringers trace, it often looks sloppy because they are either 1) holding the string, or 2) not holding the string. the string makes all the difference.

 

bueno's style using ultra short strings with a slight knot at the end kinda comes close, but he's pretty rare in terms of hybrid stickers. and even then there are drawbacks.

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I can understand how those moves would be impossible. But I disagree that "imitating" freehand with strings attached is completely and entirely different. Then again, I was a stringer first, and perhaps my less-experienced eye doesn't distinguish our freehanding as imitations so much. Some tracing is pretty damn convincing.

 

I should probably clarify the definition of freehanding, too, then-- is it only referring to a dance style within a certain set of moves? or is dancing with glowsticks & maybe only a few of the moves within that set, and perhaps a completely different dance style, still encompassed within freehanding? (refer to TinyLove's clip from the first 2008 glowshop compilation for an example of why I would question this.)

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that's a good point. here is what i think:

 

freehanding is freehanding when all the moves in it are possible and not limited by props. so the complete set of freehanding is what freehanding is. a subset isn't freehanding.

 

for example, what's the difference between soccer and basketball? they both share a similar set of things.. opposing teams, one ball, no other equipment used, some kind of opposing goal. but they diverge on some important things.

 

how about if you were playing tennis.. but without the rackets. no tennis enthusist would say you were playing tennis.

 

or how about if you are playing basketball but you were forced to use tennis balls instead of regular sized balls. do you think the mechanics of the game would change? do you think people would consider it basketball?

 

i'm saying the string is an important differentiate. to be sure, stringed freehanding is certainly glowsticking, but i'll disagree as to whether it's freehanding. it's some sort of neuteured freehanding. some sort of limited freehanding. but i disagree as to whether it's freehanding.

 

this is all glowsticking anyway, so this is purely a semantics debate and probably won't be solved until a few years from now when we see where hybrid glowsticking has taken off. i consider it to be really advanced glowstringing, that's all.

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Mwhahaha, a stringed helicopter toss is not impossible! Just very hard to pull off cleanly. Just thought I'd let you know.

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Mwhahaha, a stringed helicopter toss is not impossible! Just very hard to pull off cleanly. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

i saw it .. im pretty impressed

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show me a video of a stringed helicopter toss and you'll make be a believer.

 

the only way i can see it working is if you wrap the string in a spiral around the glowstick neatly. which is impossible to do while you are stringing. if you bunch it all up, it'll come undone. if you put it all at the end, the balance is off. if you let it go, the string acts as a ribbon to slow the glowstick down, which, because of the liquid inside, has the kind of momentum a raw egg does, and will further slow it down.

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I would make a video just for you Dave but I don't have a camera to do it with. Maybe if you come to Roscoe's for our dinner meet-up I can show you in person, otherwise I hear Kristen might be coming and maybe I can get her help and make my first vid :)

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148 mark heli toss while stringing. and 150, 328, 331, 340, 342, 349 and 354 marks.

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Well, unfortunately due to Youtube quality, only about 2 of those looked like they MIGHT have been heli tosses. Most just looked like normal tosses to me and I'm sure that is the distinction Dave is getting at.

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^ agreed. Looking forward to seeing your helis, Opacus :)

 

freehanding is freehanding when all the moves in it are possible and not limited by props. so the complete set of freehanding is what freehanding is. a subset isn't freehanding.

 

this is all glowsticking anyway, so this is purely a semantics debate and probably won't be solved until a few years from now when we see where hybrid glowsticking has taken off. i consider it to be really advanced glowstringing, that's all.

mmm, I could argue against some of your analogies, but that's not the same as the actual argument at hand, so I'll leave that. one last clarification, though: if all the moves in it are possible but not used, would you still consider that freehanding? a freehander who doesn't make extensive use of stalls, for instance. Then, although perhaps some moves in hybrid sticking aren't possible with strings...QED.

 

But I agree that it's too early to make a call. We're going to have to prove our theories; & as you can tell, a few of us intend to take it further, so hopefully we'll come up with something to address later. :)

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the video has no heli tosses in them. as i've seen many times before, it rotates quickly once and then slows down.

 

there is a difference between whether someone CHOOSES not to do them and whether they physically could. and that's a crucial difference.

 

this whole debate reminds me of the glowstringing vs poi debate a few years ago.

 

right now, there is no argument in my head... hybriders need to come up with a set of moves that is neither freehand NOR glowstringing. i bet there will be a lot of super short stringing involved.. as well as a lot of throws and stalls and balance and momemtum based things (when a stringer "stalls" a glowstick in air-- have you guys tried stalling both glowsticks in air, and then letting go of both the strings, letting it drop toward the ground and catching the glowsticks with the opposite hands?)

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just wanted to mention the video was good in every other way, but i think the fake heli's should be dropped from that... it just doesn't look as good as everything else and it stems from a freehanders instinct...

 

maybe you guys can think of an alternative.

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mmhm, sounds interesting; stringing stalls have quite a bit of potential. At the glowshop, we played around with yanking a string out of a stall straight into your palm. Momentum work, indeed.

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